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Old 09-11-2005, 03:56 PM   #1
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Rioters "intended to kill police"

.....not a thread that you might think it is.

Here the rioters are Protestant loyalists in Northern Ireland and some of the worst "troubles" in recent years happened in Belfast yesterday.

Check it out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4235278.stm




More than 30 police officers were injured in Northern Ireland's worst rioting in years, the chief constable has said.
Sir Hugh Orde said at least 50 live rounds were fired by loyalist paramilitaries at police and Army in a "sustained and violent attack".

Rioters in Belfast intended to kill police and it was lucky "we have no dead police officers", he said.

Trouble broke out after a disputed Protestant Orange Order parade.

The security forces fired 450 plastic bullets and seven live rounds. Several people were arrested.

A "bomb factory" had been discovered in Belfast and seven firearms recovered, said Sir Hugh.

A major police investigation would now be launched following the events, he said.

The situation in Belfast and other parts of County Antrim is quiet after some of the worst rioting for years.

All those with influence in the community, including the Orange Order and unionist politicians, must condemn this violence and give their full support to the PSNI

About 1,000 police and 1,000 soldiers were deployed to deal with the violence.

Sir Hugh said it was one of the most dangerous riot situations ever faced by officers in the UK.


Police returned live fire after being targeted by automatic weapons.

Loyalist rioters attacked police with homemade bombs, bricks, bottles, petrol bombs, blast bombs, pipe bombs and live rounds.

A man injured by a blast bomb is in a critical condition in hospital.

Secretary of State Peter Hain condemned the violence. "Attempted murder cannot in any way be justified," he said. He will meet NI's police chief on Monday.

Mr Hain said the rioting and attacks on the police and Army were totally unacceptable.

"There can be no ambiguity or excuse for breaking the law. All those with influence in the community, including the Orange Order and unionist politicians, must condemn this violence and give their full support to the PSNI."

Sir Hugh said the Orange Order bore substantial responsibility for the rioting and attacks on his officers.

The Orange Order described his remarks as "inflammatory".

At a news conference in Belfast on Sunday, Sir Hugh said he saw members of the Orange Order attacking PSNI officers.

The violence had been orchestrated and the police response had been proportionate and responsible, he said.

"Petrol bombs don't appear by accident, blast bombs do not appear by accident and certainly firearms have to be planned to be produced in the way they were produced," said Sir Hugh.


The Orange Order parade had "become illegal" and "fundamentally breached" the Parades Commission's determination on several counts, said the chief constable.

Of the 450 plastic baton rounds fired, about 250 were fired by the Army and the remainder by the PSNI, said the chief constable.

The police fired six live rounds and the Army fired one live round at a gunman, he said.


Ballymena is calm after serious rioting on the Larne Road.

Petrol bombs were thrown at the police and violence spread to Ahoghill, where youths gathered in the centre of the village, setting cars on fire, damaging houses and throwing fireworks at police.

Cars were hijacked and roads were also blocked in Ballyclare, Glengormley, Rathcoole, Larne and Carrickfergus, as the violence spread.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Just to re-interate that all the violence in Northern Ireland DOES NOT COME FROM THE REPUBLICANS

and to remind us that the rest of the world is churning around as the USA is focused on itself.

Very sad news from N.I. indeed.
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Old 09-11-2005, 04:59 PM   #2
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I was talking to this guy who said rioting is basically a recreational sport for certain elements there...they need to cut it out before they kill somebody.
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Old 09-11-2005, 05:12 PM   #3
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Re: Rioters "intended to kill police"

Quote:
Originally posted by Jamila
Just to re-interate that all the violence in Northern Ireland DOES NOT COME FROM THE REPUBLICANS
You honestly believe that Loyalists are responsible for EVERY SINGLE act of violence that occurs over there???
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Old 09-11-2005, 07:33 PM   #4
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"Belfast Riots Some of Worst in a Decade"

[q]
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AP
Belfast Riots Some of Worst in a Decade

By SHAWN POGATCHNIK, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 15 minutes ago

BELFAST, Northern Ireland - Protestant extremists rioted for a second straight night Sunday, attacking police and burning cars in some of the most widespread street mayhem that Belfast has experienced for a decade following anger over a restricted parade.

Police advised drivers to avoid several working-class Protestant parts of the city, where thousands of men and youths blocked roads and lobbed a range of objects — including homemade grenades — at police equipped with helmets, body armor and flame-retardant jumpsuits.

Chief Constable Hugh Orde, commander of Northern Ireland's mostly Protestant police, blamed the Orange Order brotherhood for inspiring the riots. The violence began Saturday when police prevented Orangemen from parading near a hard-line Catholic part of west Belfast.

Orde said 32 officers were wounded Saturday and early Sunday while fending off mobs of angry, often drunken Protestant men and teenagers in several parts of Belfast and in seven other predominantly Protestant towns and villages. Two civilians also were injured in the violence.

He said two major outlawed Protestant groups, the Ulster Defense Association and the Ulster Volunteer Force, helped orchestrate the attacks, adding that police seized a bomb-making factory and seven firearms in follow-up raids on Sunday.

"We are very lucky we do not have dead officers this morning. It's a tribute to the way they responded and it's a tribute to their tactics," Orde said.

Orde said about 50 rounds were fired at police positions Saturday in northwest Belfast, scene of the most protracted and dangerous clashes, but no officer was wounded by bullets. About a half dozen officers did suffer shrapnel wounds from homemade grenades.

On Sunday night, several hundred men and youths blocked roads and intersections in east and north Belfast. Rioters, covering their faces with scarves, pelted police vehicles with gasoline bombs, bottles, rocks and paint-filled balloons.

Homemade grenades containing packs of nails were lobbed into a police barracks in west Belfast, but the explosions injured nobody.

In one particularly blatant sign of outlawed groups' involvement, masked and armed men stopped cars and checked people's licenses at a police-style road checkpoint near the Mount Vernon neighborhood in north Belfast, a stronghold of the Ulster Volunteer Force. Such demonstrations are designed to mock police authority.

Orange marches, always a divisive summertime tradition, triggered widespread violence in the mid-1990s but comparatively little in recent years. Belfast's last major riot came July 12, when about 500 Catholics attacked police following a small Orange parade in north Belfast. On that occasion, about 100 officers and 10 civilians were wounded.

But this weekend saw the worst riots by Protestants since July 1996, when Protestants rioted across Northern Ireland for four nights straight over another blocked Orange Order parade. On that occasion, police caved in to the pressure, allowing the Protestants to march — and triggering three more nights of Catholic rioting.

This weekend, police and soldiers said they fired about 430 plastic bullets at rioters. They also deployed massive mobile water cannons, but these proved ineffective in clearing the streets.

In several locations, Catholic hard-liners also joined in the all-night fray, tossing rocks, bottles and other objects into police lines and the Protestant crowds beyond.

On Sunday, Catholics — about 40 percent of Northern Ireland's 1.7 million population — weighed whether to attend services at their local churches, particularly those near hard-line Protestant turf.

___

On the Net:

Northern Ireland Parades Commission, http://www.paradescommission.org

Orange Order, http://www.grandorange.org.uk[/q]
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Old 09-11-2005, 07:40 PM   #5
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Yes, I hope Pastor Ian Paisley will shut up now seeing that his "lovely" Protestants are the ony victims by the killing Catholics.

It shows how fundamental and violent the Orang Order really is, and that this country still is not calmed down at all.
I won't say we will not see any Catholics being violent in future, but this time it is an important and sad sign that there are still forces in the country who don't understand that religion isn't the main thing in the world when it comes to events like the march two days ago.
I hope this will not lead to another confrontation just a few weeks after the IRA announced to stop the fight at all.
Remember, e.g. the Real IRA still exists and is a potential danger to the peace in Northern Ireland especially ehen the Protestants start fighting.
So the Govenrment should do more to keep the peace safe and find a peaceful solution for the march of the Orange Order.
I hope this will be an unique incident.
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Old 09-11-2005, 07:59 PM   #6
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^it won't be a unique incident....the police have for years been slow to act against loyalists...the unionist polictians will speak against it but won't 'lead' the protestant community against the loyalist paramilitaries...no actions.

Violence has always happened on both sides, but the loyalist side has never had as much attention or focus placed on it as the IRA had, they were allowed to saty very militarised...the IRA became a glorified mafia....greed was their game not terrorism....the Real IRA still active though...loyalists who are supposed to be on ceasefire are still very active as this shows......
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Old 09-11-2005, 08:11 PM   #7
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Yes, I would agree that the only reason for the attention to this riot is that there is no catholic IRA to blame for any riots, but only this loyalists riot for years.

So, in the previous decades the IRA was the enemy for England and Northern Ireland, and despite the UVF was officially illegal all their attacks weren't blamed by the officials.

Now there is no alternative than to blame these attacks.
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Old 09-11-2005, 08:39 PM   #8
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The theory went that the loyalists would fold up once the IRA went.....
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Old 09-11-2005, 08:49 PM   #9
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Yes, it seemed that the Loyalists depended on the IRA in a way, because the Loyalists got what they wanted, being a part of Great Britain, whereas the IRA fought for the connection to the Republic.

Now the conflict between the religions could become the major part, but I don't hope so.
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Old 09-12-2005, 03:27 AM   #10
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As someone who has lived in Belfast for a time, albeit a while ago, I noted with much surprise (not) the timing of the police response to the loyalist rioting compared to the last republican rioting (which occured after a republican girl was attacked and raped and the police done not much).

Republican riot (a couple of kids throwing stones at armored police cars): Water cannon used within ten minutes.

Loyalist riot (mass riot with petrol bombs being thrown at riot police formations): Water Cannon not used for 4 hours.

Equal society my foot.
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Old 09-12-2005, 03:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by LJT
^it won't be a unique incident....the police have for years been slow to act against loyalists...

I would say this is true, apart from the rioting last night and the night before. The police have really been working very hard and they have fought right back. They have shot back, arrested people, used the water cannon in lots of towns, even the one I live in.

Quote:
Yes, I would agree that the only reason for the attention to this riot is that there is no catholic IRA to blame for any riots, but only this loyalists riot for years.
This isn't the first bit of rioting we have seen this year, there has been trouble brewing for weeks here with the Loyalist feud. The Republicans rioted in July when the Orange Parade in the same place was allowed to pass, the riot stayed isolated to just one road in Belfast. These riots have been very widespread plus they have had gunmen out on the streets attempting to kill people. There would have been attention to this trouble, IRA or no IRA to blame.
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Old 09-12-2005, 03:54 AM   #12
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Oh no, not again!
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Old 09-12-2005, 05:22 AM   #13
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More bad news from Northern Ireland today:


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...International/



Protestant attacks on police continue in Northern IrelandMonday, September 12, 2005 Updated at 3:15 AM EDT

Associated Press

Belfast — Protestant extremists attacked police and British troops into a third day Monday, littering streets with rubble and burned-out vehicles in an orgy of violence sparked by anger over a restricted parade.

Crowds of masked men and youths confronted police backed by British troops in dozens of hard-line Protestant districts in Belfast and several other towns. Gunmen opened fire on police and soldiers in at least two parts of the capital Sunday night, but nobody was hit.

Riot-hardened police units equipped with helmets, body armour and flame-retardant jumpsuits doused crowds with massive water cannons and fired several hundred blunt-nosed plastic bullets.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland said 18 more officers were injured Sunday night and Monday morning, chiefly by shrapnel from rioters' homemade grenades, bringing the force's three-day total to 48.


Paramedics said they have treated several civilians for gunshot and shrapnel wounds and burns, but only three of them have checked into hospitals -- where rioters risk being identified and arrested. One Protestant man, who had been shot in the arm Sunday by British troops, was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder.

Monday morning commuters into Belfast, home to a third of Northern Ireland's 1.7 million people, listened to radio traffic reports that offered a long list of roads and neighbourhoods to avoid -- not because of jams, but because they were blocked by burned-out vehicles or littered with tire-puncturing rubble.

Chief Constable Hugh Orde, commander of Northern Ireland's mostly Protestant police, has blamed the Orange Order -- a legal brotherhood with more than 50,000 members -- for inspiring the riots. The violence began Saturday when police prevented Orangemen from parading near a hard-line Catholic part of west Belfast.

But police and analysts also agree that the march provided a pretext for Northern Ireland's two major outlawed Protestant paramilitary groups, the Ulster Defence Association and the Ulster Volunteer Force, to launch a pre-planned rebellion against police authority. Their current desire for street mayhem reflects their near-total disconnection from the province's decade-old peace process.

The UDA and UVF are both supposed to be observing cease-fires and disarming in support of Northern Ireland's 1998 peace accord, just like the outlawed Irish Republican Army rooted in militant Catholic areas.

Chief Orde said members of both the UVF and UDA, which wield authority in different Protestant districts of Belfast, were both orchestrating attacks. He cited the rioters' access this weekend to stockpiles of gasoline-filled bottles, homemade grenades and assault rifles, and noted that police seized a bomb-making factory and seven firearms during the riots.

“We are very lucky we do not have dead officers this morning. It's a tribute to the way they responded and it's a tribute to their tactics,” Chief Orde said before rioting resumed Sunday night.

In one particularly blatant sign of outlawed groups' involvement, masked and armed men stopped cars Sunday and checked drivers' licences at a police-style road checkpoint near the Mount Vernon neighbourhood in north Belfast, a UVF stronghold.

Such demonstrations -- which have been carried out by both the IRA and Protestant outlaws during previous flashpoints of Northern Ireland's 53-year-old conflict -- are designed to mock police authority.

Orange marches, always a divisive summertime tradition, triggered widespread violence in the mid-1990s but comparatively little in recent years. Belfast's last major riot came July 12, when about 500 Catholics attacked police following a small Orange parade in north Belfast. On that occasion, about 100 officers and 10 civilians were wounded.

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Old 09-12-2005, 08:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lara Mullen


I would say this is true, apart from the rioting last night and the night before. The police have really been working very hard and they have fought right back. They have shot back, arrested people, used the water cannon in lots of towns, even the one I live in.



This isn't the first bit of rioting we have seen this year, there has been trouble brewing for weeks here with the Loyalist feud. The Republicans rioted in July when the Orange Parade in the same place was allowed to pass, the riot stayed isolated to just one road in Belfast. These riots have been very widespread plus they have had gunmen out on the streets attempting to kill people. There would have been attention to this trouble, IRA or no IRA to blame.
OK, good information. The German press doesn't really say much about these riots, I didn't read or see anything in the news. Certainly, the death rate isn't high enough for getting good quotes.

But this confirms that it really takes a long time to equalize the Catholics in Northern Ireland I think.

Really sad news
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Old 09-12-2005, 08:38 AM   #15
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The UDA and UVF have ended their ceasefire.

Expect a lot of Catholics to be killed in the next couple of weeks to goad the IRA into action.

Also expect the PSNI, the British Army and the media to go after the loyalists in the same way they went after the IRA....not.
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