MERGED ==> Rioters "Intended to Kill Police" + "Belfast Riots"

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Jamila

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Rioters "intended to kill police"

.....not a thread that you might think it is.

Here the rioters are Protestant loyalists in Northern Ireland and some of the worst "troubles" in recent years happened in Belfast yesterday.

Check it out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/4235278.stm




More than 30 police officers were injured in Northern Ireland's worst rioting in years, the chief constable has said.
Sir Hugh Orde said at least 50 live rounds were fired by loyalist paramilitaries at police and Army in a "sustained and violent attack".

Rioters in Belfast intended to kill police and it was lucky "we have no dead police officers", he said.

Trouble broke out after a disputed Protestant Orange Order parade.

The security forces fired 450 plastic bullets and seven live rounds. Several people were arrested.

A "bomb factory" had been discovered in Belfast and seven firearms recovered, said Sir Hugh.

A major police investigation would now be launched following the events, he said.

The situation in Belfast and other parts of County Antrim is quiet after some of the worst rioting for years.

All those with influence in the community, including the Orange Order and unionist politicians, must condemn this violence and give their full support to the PSNI

About 1,000 police and 1,000 soldiers were deployed to deal with the violence.

Sir Hugh said it was one of the most dangerous riot situations ever faced by officers in the UK.


Police returned live fire after being targeted by automatic weapons.

Loyalist rioters attacked police with homemade bombs, bricks, bottles, petrol bombs, blast bombs, pipe bombs and live rounds.

A man injured by a blast bomb is in a critical condition in hospital.

Secretary of State Peter Hain condemned the violence. "Attempted murder cannot in any way be justified," he said. He will meet NI's police chief on Monday.

Mr Hain said the rioting and attacks on the police and Army were totally unacceptable.

"There can be no ambiguity or excuse for breaking the law. All those with influence in the community, including the Orange Order and unionist politicians, must condemn this violence and give their full support to the PSNI."

Sir Hugh said the Orange Order bore substantial responsibility for the rioting and attacks on his officers.

The Orange Order described his remarks as "inflammatory".

At a news conference in Belfast on Sunday, Sir Hugh said he saw members of the Orange Order attacking PSNI officers.

The violence had been orchestrated and the police response had been proportionate and responsible, he said.

"Petrol bombs don't appear by accident, blast bombs do not appear by accident and certainly firearms have to be planned to be produced in the way they were produced," said Sir Hugh.


The Orange Order parade had "become illegal" and "fundamentally breached" the Parades Commission's determination on several counts, said the chief constable.

Of the 450 plastic baton rounds fired, about 250 were fired by the Army and the remainder by the PSNI, said the chief constable.

The police fired six live rounds and the Army fired one live round at a gunman, he said.


Ballymena is calm after serious rioting on the Larne Road.

Petrol bombs were thrown at the police and violence spread to Ahoghill, where youths gathered in the centre of the village, setting cars on fire, damaging houses and throwing fireworks at police.

Cars were hijacked and roads were also blocked in Ballyclare, Glengormley, Rathcoole, Larne and Carrickfergus, as the violence spread.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Just to re-interate that all the violence in Northern Ireland DOES NOT COME FROM THE REPUBLICANS

and to remind us that the rest of the world is churning around as the USA is focused on itself.

Very sad news from N.I. indeed. :(
 
Re: Rioters "intended to kill police"

Jamila said:
Just to re-interate that all the violence in Northern Ireland DOES NOT COME FROM THE REPUBLICANS

You honestly believe that Loyalists are responsible for EVERY SINGLE act of violence that occurs over there??? :confused:
 
"Belfast Riots Some of Worst in a Decade"

[q]
Search: Advanced
AP
Belfast Riots Some of Worst in a Decade

By SHAWN POGATCHNIK, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 15 minutes ago

BELFAST, Northern Ireland - Protestant extremists rioted for a second straight night Sunday, attacking police and burning cars in some of the most widespread street mayhem that Belfast has experienced for a decade following anger over a restricted parade.

Police advised drivers to avoid several working-class Protestant parts of the city, where thousands of men and youths blocked roads and lobbed a range of objects — including homemade grenades — at police equipped with helmets, body armor and flame-retardant jumpsuits.

Chief Constable Hugh Orde, commander of Northern Ireland's mostly Protestant police, blamed the Orange Order brotherhood for inspiring the riots. The violence began Saturday when police prevented Orangemen from parading near a hard-line Catholic part of west Belfast.

Orde said 32 officers were wounded Saturday and early Sunday while fending off mobs of angry, often drunken Protestant men and teenagers in several parts of Belfast and in seven other predominantly Protestant towns and villages. Two civilians also were injured in the violence.

He said two major outlawed Protestant groups, the Ulster Defense Association and the Ulster Volunteer Force, helped orchestrate the attacks, adding that police seized a bomb-making factory and seven firearms in follow-up raids on Sunday.

"We are very lucky we do not have dead officers this morning. It's a tribute to the way they responded and it's a tribute to their tactics," Orde said.

Orde said about 50 rounds were fired at police positions Saturday in northwest Belfast, scene of the most protracted and dangerous clashes, but no officer was wounded by bullets. About a half dozen officers did suffer shrapnel wounds from homemade grenades.

On Sunday night, several hundred men and youths blocked roads and intersections in east and north Belfast. Rioters, covering their faces with scarves, pelted police vehicles with gasoline bombs, bottles, rocks and paint-filled balloons.

Homemade grenades containing packs of nails were lobbed into a police barracks in west Belfast, but the explosions injured nobody.

In one particularly blatant sign of outlawed groups' involvement, masked and armed men stopped cars and checked people's licenses at a police-style road checkpoint near the Mount Vernon neighborhood in north Belfast, a stronghold of the Ulster Volunteer Force. Such demonstrations are designed to mock police authority.

Orange marches, always a divisive summertime tradition, triggered widespread violence in the mid-1990s but comparatively little in recent years. Belfast's last major riot came July 12, when about 500 Catholics attacked police following a small Orange parade in north Belfast. On that occasion, about 100 officers and 10 civilians were wounded.

But this weekend saw the worst riots by Protestants since July 1996, when Protestants rioted across Northern Ireland for four nights straight over another blocked Orange Order parade. On that occasion, police caved in to the pressure, allowing the Protestants to march — and triggering three more nights of Catholic rioting.

This weekend, police and soldiers said they fired about 430 plastic bullets at rioters. They also deployed massive mobile water cannons, but these proved ineffective in clearing the streets.

In several locations, Catholic hard-liners also joined in the all-night fray, tossing rocks, bottles and other objects into police lines and the Protestant crowds beyond.

On Sunday, Catholics — about 40 percent of Northern Ireland's 1.7 million population — weighed whether to attend services at their local churches, particularly those near hard-line Protestant turf.

___

On the Net:

Northern Ireland Parades Commission, http://www.paradescommission.org

Orange Order, http://www.grandorange.org.uk[/q]
 
Yes, I hope Pastor Ian Paisley will shut up now seeing that his "lovely" Protestants are the ony victims by the killing Catholics.

It shows how fundamental and violent the Orang Order really is, and that this country still is not calmed down at all.
I won't say we will not see any Catholics being violent in future, but this time it is an important and sad sign that there are still forces in the country who don't understand that religion isn't the main thing in the world when it comes to events like the march two days ago.
I hope this will not lead to another confrontation just a few weeks after the IRA announced to stop the fight at all.
Remember, e.g. the Real IRA still exists and is a potential danger to the peace in Northern Ireland especially ehen the Protestants start fighting.
So the Govenrment should do more to keep the peace safe and find a peaceful solution for the march of the Orange Order.
I hope this will be an unique incident.
 
^it won't be a unique incident....the police have for years been slow to act against loyalists...the unionist polictians will speak against it but won't 'lead' the protestant community against the loyalist paramilitaries...no actions.

Violence has always happened on both sides, but the loyalist side has never had as much attention or focus placed on it as the IRA had, they were allowed to saty very militarised...the IRA became a glorified mafia....greed was their game not terrorism....the Real IRA still active though...loyalists who are supposed to be on ceasefire are still very active as this shows......
 
Yes, I would agree that the only reason for the attention to this riot is that there is no catholic IRA to blame for any riots, but only this loyalists riot for years.

So, in the previous decades the IRA was the enemy for England and Northern Ireland, and despite the UVF was officially illegal all their attacks weren't blamed by the officials.

Now there is no alternative than to blame these attacks.
 
The theory went that the loyalists would fold up once the IRA went.....:|
 
Yes, it seemed that the Loyalists depended on the IRA in a way, because the Loyalists got what they wanted, being a part of Great Britain, whereas the IRA fought for the connection to the Republic.

Now the conflict between the religions could become the major part, but I don't hope so.
 
As someone who has lived in Belfast for a time, albeit a while ago, I noted with much surprise (not) the timing of the police response to the loyalist rioting compared to the last republican rioting (which occured after a republican girl was attacked and raped and the police done not much).

Republican riot (a couple of kids throwing stones at armored police cars): Water cannon used within ten minutes.

Loyalist riot (mass riot with petrol bombs being thrown at riot police formations): Water Cannon not used for 4 hours.

Equal society my foot.
 
LJT said:
^it won't be a unique incident....the police have for years been slow to act against loyalists...


I would say this is true, apart from the rioting last night and the night before. The police have really been working very hard and they have fought right back. They have shot back, arrested people, used the water cannon in lots of towns, even the one I live in.

Yes, I would agree that the only reason for the attention to this riot is that there is no catholic IRA to blame for any riots, but only this loyalists riot for years.

This isn't the first bit of rioting we have seen this year, there has been trouble brewing for weeks here with the Loyalist feud. The Republicans rioted in July when the Orange Parade in the same place was allowed to pass, the riot stayed isolated to just one road in Belfast. These riots have been very widespread plus they have had gunmen out on the streets attempting to kill people. There would have been attention to this trouble, IRA or no IRA to blame.
 
More bad news from Northern Ireland today:


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050912.wbelfast0912/BNStory/International/



Protestant attacks on police continue in Northern IrelandMonday, September 12, 2005 Updated at 3:15 AM EDT

Associated Press

Belfast — Protestant extremists attacked police and British troops into a third day Monday, littering streets with rubble and burned-out vehicles in an orgy of violence sparked by anger over a restricted parade.

Crowds of masked men and youths confronted police backed by British troops in dozens of hard-line Protestant districts in Belfast and several other towns. Gunmen opened fire on police and soldiers in at least two parts of the capital Sunday night, but nobody was hit.

Riot-hardened police units equipped with helmets, body armour and flame-retardant jumpsuits doused crowds with massive water cannons and fired several hundred blunt-nosed plastic bullets.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland said 18 more officers were injured Sunday night and Monday morning, chiefly by shrapnel from rioters' homemade grenades, bringing the force's three-day total to 48.


Paramedics said they have treated several civilians for gunshot and shrapnel wounds and burns, but only three of them have checked into hospitals -- where rioters risk being identified and arrested. One Protestant man, who had been shot in the arm Sunday by British troops, was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder.

Monday morning commuters into Belfast, home to a third of Northern Ireland's 1.7 million people, listened to radio traffic reports that offered a long list of roads and neighbourhoods to avoid -- not because of jams, but because they were blocked by burned-out vehicles or littered with tire-puncturing rubble.

Chief Constable Hugh Orde, commander of Northern Ireland's mostly Protestant police, has blamed the Orange Order -- a legal brotherhood with more than 50,000 members -- for inspiring the riots. The violence began Saturday when police prevented Orangemen from parading near a hard-line Catholic part of west Belfast.

But police and analysts also agree that the march provided a pretext for Northern Ireland's two major outlawed Protestant paramilitary groups, the Ulster Defence Association and the Ulster Volunteer Force, to launch a pre-planned rebellion against police authority. Their current desire for street mayhem reflects their near-total disconnection from the province's decade-old peace process.

The UDA and UVF are both supposed to be observing cease-fires and disarming in support of Northern Ireland's 1998 peace accord, just like the outlawed Irish Republican Army rooted in militant Catholic areas.

Chief Orde said members of both the UVF and UDA, which wield authority in different Protestant districts of Belfast, were both orchestrating attacks. He cited the rioters' access this weekend to stockpiles of gasoline-filled bottles, homemade grenades and assault rifles, and noted that police seized a bomb-making factory and seven firearms during the riots.

“We are very lucky we do not have dead officers this morning. It's a tribute to the way they responded and it's a tribute to their tactics,” Chief Orde said before rioting resumed Sunday night.

In one particularly blatant sign of outlawed groups' involvement, masked and armed men stopped cars Sunday and checked drivers' licences at a police-style road checkpoint near the Mount Vernon neighbourhood in north Belfast, a UVF stronghold.

Such demonstrations -- which have been carried out by both the IRA and Protestant outlaws during previous flashpoints of Northern Ireland's 53-year-old conflict -- are designed to mock police authority.

Orange marches, always a divisive summertime tradition, triggered widespread violence in the mid-1990s but comparatively little in recent years. Belfast's last major riot came July 12, when about 500 Catholics attacked police following a small Orange parade in north Belfast. On that occasion, about 100 officers and 10 civilians were wounded.

----------------------------------------------------------

As Bono says, "Peace on Earth" .....or COEXIST!
:yes:
 
Lara Mullen said:


I would say this is true, apart from the rioting last night and the night before. The police have really been working very hard and they have fought right back. They have shot back, arrested people, used the water cannon in lots of towns, even the one I live in.



This isn't the first bit of rioting we have seen this year, there has been trouble brewing for weeks here with the Loyalist feud. The Republicans rioted in July when the Orange Parade in the same place was allowed to pass, the riot stayed isolated to just one road in Belfast. These riots have been very widespread plus they have had gunmen out on the streets attempting to kill people. There would have been attention to this trouble, IRA or no IRA to blame.

OK, good information. The German press doesn't really say much about these riots, I didn't read or see anything in the news. Certainly, the death rate isn't high enough for getting good quotes.

But this confirms that it really takes a long time to equalize the Catholics in Northern Ireland I think.

Really sad news :(
 
The UDA and UVF have ended their ceasefire.

Expect a lot of Catholics to be killed in the next couple of weeks to goad the IRA into action.

Also expect the PSNI, the British Army and the media to go after the loyalists in the same way they went after the IRA....not.
 
I am scared the R. IRA could decide not to respect its declaration to lay down the weapons.

I hope this is an episode that is not going to repeat...
 
popshopper said:
The UDA and UVF have ended their ceasefire.

Expect a lot of Catholics to be killed in the next couple of weeks to goad the IRA into action.

Also expect the PSNI, the British Army and the media to go after the loyalists in the same way they went after the IRA....not.

Strike that, the head of the PSNI, Hugh Orde was misquoted.

The loyalists are still on ceasefire, such as it is.
 
Btw Lara i do agree that the police have acted better on these current riots, but i think that is because they have been forced to as they are getting shot at.

Bah the unionists are claiming the police were heavy handed and needlessly brutal:eyebrow: I always knew the unionists lived in cuckoo land...oh wait i do live in cuckoo land its called Northern Ireland:wink:

How can you be heavy handed when your getting shot at:madspit:

If you boil this down it makes it sound like the stupidest thing on the planet:

'We were not allowed to march where people didn't want us...so lets riot':|

There is no governement here just a constant political vacuum...Hain the Northern Ireland secretary has said he will specify the UVF, UDA etc which basically means nothing...the British government will probably declare their supposed ceasefires over but that won't change anything...the British government and police here will not invest resources like they did against the IRA:sigh: we will be lucky if we get a statement from Blair on this.

Here won't change for years to come...the IRA can disband all it wants, but republicans there will still be, and loyalists of some sort to...what's sad is really the British government don't want anything to do with the unionists, and down south they don't want want anything to do with the nationalists up here..i can not really blame them...who wants Northern Ireland? we are just a problem to the British and why the hell would the Republic want a united Ireland (i consider myself a nationalist)...down south they are having a brilliant time, 8th highest living standard in the world...Northern Ireland would just be trouble:(
 
LJT said:
Btw Lara i do agree that the police have acted better on these current riots, but i think that is because they have been forced to as they are getting shot at.


I thought I had mentioned that, it was very early this morning when I commented. :)

As for your point about change, a lot of people are bred to have hate for the "other side" - I don't see things changing anytime soon. The sad thing is it's only a minority in both sides of the community that cause this trouble. If they were allowed to march the nationalists in Ardoyne would have rioted again. Most people don't want their lives to be dictated by the parades or the riots afterwards.

I live about 7 minutes away from the estate where they were checking peoples licences. I am thankful that my parents purposely gave me the most English sounding name they could think of (the tradition in our family is to pass on Irish grandparents names), I drive past there all the time. I live in the middle of one of the places quoted in those articles. I can go two different bus routes and each route takes me past places where they have hijacked cars, rioted or stoned vehicles so I can't go out for fear I can't get a bus home again or I will be on the bus that is hijacked. I don't care if the Orange men can march or not, whatever the outcome people are forced to stay in their houses, because it brings thugs out into the streets and leaves the police in the middle with everyone laying the blame on someone else.

I still think Belfast is a great place to live, I think it is unfairly portrayed in other parts of the world because this is the only type of news that is well documented. On the whole I love it here. This is one of the few things I won't miss about it though. :up:
 
I've merged the two threads on this subject, unfortunately I think this may make a few posts appear out of sequence so I apologise for that. :(

Can I also remind people to please check this thread about posting newspaper articles.

Thanks. :)
*Fizz.
 
Lara i hope you stay safe:hug: luckily there has been very little trouble in West Belfast...i believe the aim of the loyalists is to try and get the IRA to respond...the paramilitaries need the tension to survive:(

I am sorry to say though but i hate Belfast...i live in Andersonstown if you know where it is, and it is one of the most small minded places in the world....people in Belfast seem to think there is no world outside of Belfast...i am going to Bristol uni and most people seem to treat it like i am going to the moon. People i find here are just small and petty minded a lot of the time...that is because of the troubles here...and Belfast as a city is not great either. Well that is just my personal experience of here:sigh:

I am tired of everything that happens, ahh the news has just been annoying me today, the unionists are not condemning the attacks and are making excuses for it:mad:
 
Re: Re: Rioters "intended to kill police"

DaveC said:


You honestly believe that Loyalists are responsible for EVERY SINGLE act of violence that occurs over there??? :confused:

Of course not you're right they're both to blame
 
Hello LJT,

I live close to you but far away, if you know what I mean. You always speak good sense. Well done, to you.
 
thanks Homer, hope your staying safe too:)

I am just fed up with things here, each side is as bad as each other in many respects...it winds me up at times, even though we are used to it.

:(
 
LJT :hug:

don't get too down on your city, you should see the murder rates in some of the cities over here. only they don't have a national movement to hide behind typically. :huh:

as far as these riots, are they arresting anyone? it seems to me shooting and throwing bombs at the police is a serious offense, and frankly it seems like their response was even a little lighthanded. I'd have to wonder what would happen if mobs started shooting and attacking police in New York.
 
In New York they would be shot dead probably...

Umm i don't think there have been any arrests as far as i know..certainly none have been reported...the police would probably be too afraid to enter loyalist areas to make arrests as they would get attacked or spark more riots.
 
yeah that's true, it would probably stir up more trouble. it doesn't seem fair that certain groups of people can go out and cause such trouble on the weekend, and then continue on with their week without being held accountable for their actions. :slant:
 
who said they were stopping at the weekend:wink:

Blast bombs have already been thrown at police tonight in North Belfast, and crowds have been gathering since about 9...we will see the damage report tomorrow...but if the tension keeps up the violence may spread closer to me:huh:
 
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