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Old 12-14-2003, 07:14 PM   #61
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i'll humbly admit that i applaud GW for accomplishing his seemingly impossible mission.

but as for claiming that there will be world peace and safety long after this is... well, you know.
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Old 12-14-2003, 07:43 PM   #62
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now, i don't want to start a controversy. but really deep inside of me i was kind of rooting for sadam.
not because of him though. Yes he was a cruel and vicious dictator who deserves every punishment he can get.
...but because of the US. I don't like the idea that the US can do and undo whatever it wants just to get its objectives done. It isn't right. The UN clearly did not want the US to attack Iraq. Still the US moved on.
...so, the US capable of disregarding the UN whenever its president deems necessary.

do you think that is right??

...i don't




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Old 12-14-2003, 08:12 PM   #63
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I don't feel like the U.S. should get what it wants just because it is the U.S. or Anyone X is President. This is really a matter of the Iraqi people, not us. That being said I don't think the Iraqi people were exactly pulling for Saddam as a whole. Arabs do not like brutal dictators either. Jean Sasson's next book is going to be about an Iraqi woman who went through hell under Saddam. She got busted for an anti-government crime she did not commit. She spent time in one of Saddam's jails, a truly horrific experience. She managed to escape, and made her way to Amman, Jordan, and some semblence of freedom. Once she'd made it there she called up Sasson, who'd she met while Sasson was visiting Baghdad. I think the Iraqi people want hope, and they'd like to believe that their lives will get better under a government of their choosing. I have criticisms over some of the particulars of the recent policies, including the apparent lack of an exit strategy. We've debated this ad infinitum here and have our disagreements. But I just hope the Iraqi people don't have to put up with any more brutal dictators or rulers they don't like. I'd hate it if I didn't have the choice of voting against Bush next year. The Iraqi people should have no less.
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Old 12-14-2003, 08:18 PM   #64
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There has never been a war in history that has had more UN resolutions supporting it than the current war to remove Saddam from power. UN resolutions 678, 687, and 1441 all authorized the use of force to bring about compliance.

Saddam failed to comply and now he is being brought to justice.
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Old 12-14-2003, 10:35 PM   #65
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Wow...
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Old 12-14-2003, 11:24 PM   #66
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Sting -- those UN resolutions are not declarations of war. They specifically had to do with WMDs. Which we still haven't found.

As for the capture, I am glad that is over with and I'm proud of the troops that worked so hard to get to that point.

BUT....where is bin Laden? He killed people on our soil. he killed American soldiers on the USS Cole. He killed Americans in two African embassies. He killed Americans living in Saudi Arabia. Why did we give up on the search for him to go after Huessin? And what could we have accomplished if we kept troops in Afghanistan instead of moving them to Iraq? We are still under the threat of terrorism from one of the most evil men on the face of the earth. and this time, it has nothing to do with Huessin.
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Old 12-14-2003, 11:43 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
Sting -- those UN resolutions are not declarations of war. They specifically had to do with WMDs. Which we still haven't found.

As for the capture, I am glad that is over with and I'm proud of the troops that worked so hard to get to that point.

BUT....where is bin Laden? He killed people on our soil. he killed American soldiers on the USS Cole. He killed Americans in two African embassies. He killed Americans living in Saudi Arabia. Why did we give up on the search for him to go after Huessin? And what could we have accomplished if we kept troops in Afghanistan instead of moving them to Iraq? We are still under the threat of terrorism from one of the most evil men on the face of the earth. and this time, it has nothing to do with Huessin.
resolution 683 was a cease fire.
he did not live up to the obligations of the cease fire.
resolution 1441 recognized that he did not live up to the cease fire.

The resolutions also had to do with many more obligations other than WMD.....

and....the search for OSAMA has not stopped why do you think it has?
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Old 12-15-2003, 12:01 AM   #68
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Now that we have cleaned up this mess, I hope our government stops creating and/or stops supporting other ruthless dictators
Good job troops!!
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Old 12-15-2003, 12:02 AM   #69
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BrownEyedBoy:

I do like the message in your signature quote, but I am sorry for you that the guy you were pulling for got caught.

~U2Alabama
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Old 12-15-2003, 12:12 AM   #70
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At no time has the United States stopped looking for Bin Ladin. There were two US divisions primarily responsible for defeating Iraqi forces during the war, the US Army 3rd Infrantry Division and the 1st Marine MEF. These two divisions were not being used nor were they ever planned to be used in the hunt for Bin Ladin.

The USA has kept nearly 15,000 troops in Afghanistan, more than were on the ground when the Taliban were pushed from power 2 years ago.

The CIA, FBI, and multiple intelligence services from other countries accross the planet have continued to hunt Bin Ladin, even as the war in Iraq began.
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Old 12-15-2003, 12:21 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I don't feel like the U.S. should get what it wants just because it is the U.S. or Anyone X is President. This is really a matter of the Iraqi people, not us. That being said I don't think the Iraqi people were exactly pulling for Saddam as a whole. Arabs do not like brutal dictators either. Jean Sasson's next book is going to be about an Iraqi woman who went through hell under Saddam. She got busted for an anti-government crime she did not commit. She spent time in one of Saddam's jails, a truly horrific experience. She managed to escape, and made her way to Amman, Jordan, and some semblence of freedom. Once she'd made it there she called up Sasson, who'd she met while Sasson was visiting Baghdad. I think the Iraqi people want hope, and they'd like to believe that their lives will get better under a government of their choosing. I have criticisms over some of the particulars of the recent policies, including the apparent lack of an exit strategy. We've debated this ad infinitum here and have our disagreements. But I just hope the Iraqi people don't have to put up with any more brutal dictators or rulers they don't like. I'd hate it if I didn't have the choice of voting against Bush next year. The Iraqi people should have no less.
Exactly.

I agree with those who say that the Iraqi people should punish him. They're the ones who've been tortured for a long time, they deserve to exact justice (that, and the fact that the U.S. supported Saddam for so long also factors into my belief that we shouldn't be the ones to punish him).

I'm glad someone else feels that the Iraqis would like to run things their way. In order for them to be completely free, they need to do that-it'll be a real achievement for them. And it might help the Arabs look at us in a more favorable light-it'll let them think that we trust them (and I'd love it if we managed to get peace talks going between Israel and Palestine next, but if that didn't happen and our government decided to threaten to not support Israel anymore financially or whatnot unless they stopped what they've been doing to Palestine, it'd be harsh, yes, but if it got Israel to leave Palestine alone, well...).

I would also love it if our troops pulled out of Iraq now, too. But with the talk of possible retaliation from the Saddam supporters...that might not happen anytime soon. And if we are going to find Osama, I hope it's not within a month or two of the election next year, or else that's gonna look awfully fishy to some people.

Yeah, that's a lot of hopes to have at a questionable time right now...but maybe someone out there will have the sense to start allowing at least a couple of these things to happen. It'd be a small step forward.

Also...I just want to add myself to the list of people who are thrilled Saddam's been captured. I hope he gets a sound punishment for his evils.

Angela
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Old 12-15-2003, 03:04 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Saddam's crimes have not just been against the Iraqi people. Look at what he did to Kuwait in 1990. Thousands of Kuwaiti's are still missing. Iran lost over 300,000 troops from a war that Saddam started. Saudi Arabians living in border towns near the Kuwait border suffered when Saddam sent Iraqi divisions into Arabia. Saddam launched multiple Scud Missiles against Saudi Arabia. He also flooded the Persian Gulf with Kuwaiti oil causing massive environmental damage as well as setting hundreds of oil wells on fire.

Lets not forget his launching of Scud Missiles against Israel and his support of terrorism against Israel.

Violation of 17 UN Security Council Resolutions passed under Chapter VII rules of the UN and the Ceacefire Agreement.

Taking hundreds of foreigners (called guests) hostage during the run up to the first Gulf War. The abuse of American POWs.

Saddam's violations and crimes go well beyond what he did to the people of Iraq.

So having said that, how/where do you think he should be tried?
The only three options as I see it are Iraq, US, the Hague.

US couldn't be done. Obviously everyone would just label it 'show trial' and wonder what the point is.

Most reports I've read on this question today suggest the US will try and do eveything to keep it away from the Hague because the nature of the trials there mean all sorts will be brought up.
Saddam Hussein himself would have a lot of dirt up his sleeve and his 'defense' of himself would be aimed at in a sense switching the spotlight from himself and putting the US on trial. He could pull up all the countries doing dodgy backroom deals with him (hello France!) for the last decade and more, put the legality of the US invasion on trial, the WMD's will come up again, Israel will have to go a few rounds with him and goodness knows what he knows about Israeli/US 'whatever' in the Middle East... anyway, he'd get found guilty of virtually eveything in the Hague, but people are worried he'd be able to give a nice big "F*ck You" on his way out the backdoor and the repercussions of that could be at the very least extremely embarrassing for a number of nations/groups at the very worst could be extremely dangerous. Obviously, due to this, many, many people will push for the Hague.

Iraq seems like the best option. As long as the situation in the ground in Iraq doesn't collapse too much further between now and then. If it does he may be able to rally some kind of martyr thing. If not, it would be the best way, and symbolicaly I think the Iraqis deserve to dish it out themselves.
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Old 12-15-2003, 06:48 AM   #73
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I just wish Bin Laden would be captured
you wont find osama and omar in iraq because they are living in pakistan
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Old 12-15-2003, 06:53 AM   #74
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you guys are all crazy...whats the need for trying him
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Old 12-15-2003, 06:58 AM   #75
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My apologies....got my resolutions crossed last night.
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