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Old 10-07-2002, 10:40 AM   #16
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Shit like this makes me too afraid to bring children into the world....
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Old 10-07-2002, 11:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
13 year old boy shot this morning outside his school..looks like it could be the same person
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Old 10-07-2002, 11:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Evil is in this world - a man was killed in Minneapolis by a group of kids with shovels and tree branches. Do you want to ban trees too?


Our prayers are with those in the MD/DC area.
No, I don´t want to ban trees. I do understand your point of view - everything can be used as a weapon - but I doubt you could throw a tree branch that kills someone from a distance of 300 metres or more.

Give me a good reason why those things happen in the U.S. relatively often in compare to Europe. Yes, we got horrible events too, like children taking a gun into school and shooting around, but those things first happened in your country, and still happen more often in the U.S. Please, give me a reason.

Don´t you think one reason could possibly be a very easy access to small arms in the U.S.? I am not saying its the "fault" of arms laws. Sure, its the fault of those ill bastards that pull the trigger. But we are not discussing about fault. If you and AM would be a little constructive, we would talk about possibilities to prevent such actions.

Oh, and I would like an explanation for dumbass. Since when are you calling names, AM?
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Old 10-07-2002, 01:19 PM   #19
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I live in the area and I have to say right up front that Maryland and DC have some of the strictest gun laws in the country...Montgomery County which is a county of mostly middle and upper class people, and a very diverse population, probably the strictest of all.

Part of the problem is here where I live in VA has more liberal gun laws. You can even get permission to carry a concealed weapon here...but for some odd reason when I watch the evening news from the VA/MD/DC area there isn't a lot of shootings reported on the VA side of the line. Why? Maybe because our criminal laws are tougher. We have no parole. If you are caught with an illegal weapon during the commision of any crime it is an automatic five years...called Project Exile. I have no idea if this is a deterrent or not but we also have the death penalty.

The problem as I understand it is people buy the guns here in VA...but they don't commit the crimes here...they move across the line to do that.

However even in the worst of times Montgomery County was always considered a safe place to live. This has shocked that community to the core. I have no idea if any changes in the gun laws would make any difference or not.

I do believe if is the same person who shot that woman in VA...he should be handed over to the Virignia authorities to deal with.

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Old 10-07-2002, 02:13 PM   #20
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Originally posted by dream wanderer
I have no idea if any changes in the gun laws would make any difference or not.

I also have no idea if it would make a difference, but imho it would be worth a try.

In my country, you can only buy a weapon if you are psychologically tested, also tested by the police, have a license plus you have to have a reason other than purely potential self defense to use it (f.e. to hunt, then you are allowed to get a rifle).

I think a difference would be measurable only after a long period of time with new laws, say sth. like fifteen years. People have to capiche that its not okey to carry a gun around without any obvious reason. Just my 2c.
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Old 10-07-2002, 02:17 PM   #21
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I just want this all to be over very, very soon.
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Old 10-07-2002, 04:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Give me a good reason why those things happen in the U.S. relatively often in compare to Europe. Yes, we got horrible events too, like children taking a gun into school and shooting around, but those things first happened in your country, and still happen more often in the U.S. Please, give me a reason.

Not that I doubt you, I am claiming ignorance on this one. Do you have stats to back that statement????
Without the fact s it sounds like a broad sweeping statemnt.


In the case of NB his comment was constructive. Murders are committed with knives to, but no one is running around trying to ban butter knives. Point being, people committ murder, not weapons.
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Old 10-07-2002, 06:41 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Evil is in this world - a man was killed in Minneapolis by a group of kids with shovels and tree branches. Do you want to ban trees too?


"The latest data released in 2001 show that in a single year, 3,365 children and teens were killed by gunfire in the United States—which is one child every two and a half hours, nine children every day, more than 60 children every week. And, every year, four to five times as many children and teens suffer from non-fatal firearm injuries." source: Children's Defense Fund Action Council

The day the same is true about people being killed by trees, then we'll talk about "banning trees."

Obviously if someone wants to murder another human being, they will find the way to do it. I just don't think we should make it as easy for them as we do in the USA.
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Old 10-07-2002, 06:54 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by oliveu2cm


Obviously if someone wants to murder another human being, they will find the way to do it. I just don't think we should make it as easy for them as we do in the USA.
Great point...

Criminals get their guns the majority of the time by stealing them from licensed owners. If we didn't give just about anyone who wanted a gun a license, there would be fewer guns for criminals to get their hands on. There is no good reason for the average citizen to own a gun.

My husband is a retired cop and had his licensed weapon stolen from his car. In the same bag was a badge and police ID. Whoever broke into his car must have had field day with what he found. Rick had nightmares about someone being robbed or shot with his gun and decided it wasn't worth owning another one. He gave his backup gun to his newphew, a police officer, and we haven't had aother gun in the house since.

Yes, there are other weapons that can be used but you can't commit a drive-by with a knife. Fewer guns available mean fewer guns to use in criminal activity.

And back to the original subject of this thread...I hope the nightmare ends soon.
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Old 10-07-2002, 07:50 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bono's American Wife
Criminals get their guns the majority of the time by stealing them from licensed owners. If we didn't give just about anyone who wanted a gun a license, there would be fewer guns for criminals to get their hands on. There is no good reason for the average citizen to own a gun.
I appreciate the thoughtfulness of the posts in this thread and did not want to deviate from the main topic (the safety and security of those back in Maryland), but I'd thought I'd respond to a few comments.

There are many freedoms we cherish in the US, such as free speech and due process. Such freedoms, however, come at a cost (white supremacist web sites, criminals walking free on “technicalities”, etc.). Gun ownership is another freedom, which has its costs, as terrible as they may seem.

My comment to whenhiphopdrovethebigcars (albeit somewhat sassy) was intended to get beyond the quick fix (no guns, no gun related murders) to the deeper problem – what generates the desire in an individual to take a human life? Beyond our innate sinful condition, what in our culture, society, whatever, generates this type of behavior? Violent movies, killing spree video games, bad parenting, consumerism that promotes satisfying selfish desires - what is it?

Rather than wait for years to study the impact of laws, my gut tells me we should start with a look in the mirror. What do I hate? When do I not show love and compassion? Then pass this daily self-assessment on to our children, our families. I think it all starts with the individual.

Peace and love to all.
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Old 10-07-2002, 08:29 PM   #26
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Originally posted by Bono's American Wife
And back to the original subject of this thread...I hope the nightmare ends soon.
My apologies for getting off topic. Tonight, as a teacher, I sit here wondering what I would do. My classroom is not even 20 feet away from the entrance to my school. We are on the edge of a forest, and quite honestly, since Sept. 11 I have often thought about how vulnerable my school is.

Time to pray for the child and the victims of this person(s).


Peace to all.
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Old 10-08-2002, 01:11 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars

Oh, and I would like an explanation for dumbass. Since when are you calling names, AM?
I called you dumbass, I don't know who AM is

you really have no idea what's going on, and yet you made it a political issue... you don't know who this person(s) is, you don't know where they got their weapon, you don't know anything about what's happened, so don't start pointing fingers, you just jumped at the chance to push your political agenda
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Old 10-08-2002, 05:22 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Not that I doubt you, I am claiming ignorance on this one. Do you have stats to back that statement????
Without the fact s it sounds like a broad sweeping statemnt.


In the case of NB his comment was constructive. Murders are committed with knives to, but no one is running around trying to ban butter knives. Point being, people committ murder, not weapons.
But thats not the point in this case. I can´t throw a butter knife from 300 metres of distance. I also can´t go into a school with a butter knife and kill ten teachers and twenty pupils in a time span of ten seconds, like with a pumpgun f.e.
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Old 10-08-2002, 05:34 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

Gun ownership is another freedom, which has its costs, as terrible as they may seem.

My comment to whenhiphopdrovethebigcars (albeit somewhat sassy) was intended to get beyond the quick fix (no guns, no gun related murders) to the deeper problem – what generates the desire in an individual to take a human life? Beyond our innate sinful condition, what in our culture, society, whatever, generates this type of behavior? Violent movies, killing spree video games, bad parenting, consumerism that promotes satisfying selfish desires - what is it?

Rather than wait for years to study the impact of laws, my gut tells me we should start with a look in the mirror. What do I hate? When do I not show love and compassion? Then pass this daily self-assessment on to our children, our families. I think it all starts with the individual.

Peace and love to all.
Good post. Imho the costs are too high for this particular freedom.

To look into the mirror is always useful. Violent movies, video games, bad parenting or consumerism may play their part, but that drifts off into a discussion about what influences us negatively - about this we could discuss for ages as well, maybe in another thread.

I agree that it all starts with the individual, but I think laws - which are an important part of defining how society works - have to honor life, just as every individual person should honor life.
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Old 10-08-2002, 06:00 AM   #30
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Well done, yet more name calling. Hiphop, who is AM?

We can blame guns or weapons all we want, or blame the offenders all we want, but clearly there is a problem with a select few who are allowed to lawfully own a gun. Either they commit their own crimes, or are in a situation where someone can illegally obtain that weapon to do their own will. Why cant it just be 'too bad' for those who are responsible gun owners, to ban them all, in an effort to at least reduce the numbers of shootings?
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