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Old 07-13-2006, 10:33 PM   #31
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Originally posted by shart1780
I think you're missing my point. The main point I'm trying to make is that if you're trying to claim that there is no true, concrete right and wrong that may be completely unscathed by the way we view things then, then there really is no point on casting any sort of judgments on others' actions.

In this world right and wrong wouldn't exist, simply left and right, so to speak.


i understand your point.

i'm saying that you only think there is right and wrong because you only think you are more than a blob.
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:34 PM   #32
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Originally posted by Irvine511




can't we simply be self-aware blobs of insignificant flesh?

when one looks at how cheaply we view human life, especially from a historical perspective, it seems to make logical sense that we really are insignificant flesh and bone and the only importance we have is that which we assume for ourselves.
I don't believe we are, but some people can't seem to decide. I can see no logical reason why an atheist would come to the conclusion that there really is a right or wrong way to live or life, yet they cast judgments of right and wrong on others every day. As far as I see see it atheists who feel the need to make such judgments are hypocrites. Why claim to know anything about the idea of right or wrong if you don't claim to have any concrete grounds to make such assertions?
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:36 PM   #33
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Originally posted by shart1780


I don't believe we are, but some people can't seem to decide. I can see no logical reason why an atheist would come to the conclusion that there really is a right or wrong way to live or life, yet they cast judgments of right and wrong on others every day. As far as I see see it atheists who feel the need to make such judgments are hypocrites. Why claim to know anything about the idea of right or wrong if you don't claim to have any concrete grounds to make such assertions?


i think the difference is that an atheist will "think" or "believe" or "reason" -- he will never claim to "know."
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:38 PM   #34
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Originally posted by Irvine511




i understand your point.

i'm saying that you only think there is right and wrong because you only think you are more than a blob.
I do believe I'm more than a blob, yes, so I agree with you there.

My point is that those of us who can't explain why we're anything more than blobs really have no grounds to make any sort of judgments on right or wrong, yet I see so many try to do it.

I'm a very religious person, and base my beliefs on Jesus' tachings, thus I have grounds by which I compare situations and attempt to judge whether or not these situations are right or wrong.
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:39 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780


I don't believe we are, but some people can't seem to decide. I can see no logical reason why an atheist would come to the conclusion that there really is a right or wrong way to live or life, yet they cast judgments of right and wrong on others every day. As far as I see see it atheists who feel the need to make such judgments are hypocrites. Why claim to know anything about the idea of right or wrong if you don't claim to have any concrete grounds to make such assertions?
This is really insulting.
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:41 PM   #36
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I'm sorry if you find it insulting, but those are my views. I would like to see your point of view in opposition to what I said.
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:46 PM   #37
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I'm sorry if you find it insulting, but those are my views.


yes, your "views," which proves the point -- there are no objective moral standards.
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:49 PM   #38
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Originally posted by Irvine511




yes, your "views," which proves the point -- there are no objective moral standards.
When did I say all of my views were 100% true? I've just seen nothing to make feel otherwise.

If there are objective moral standards maybe I'm wrong about alot of things too. That's really the point I'm trying to make.
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:52 PM   #39
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I've had far too long of a day to start talking about religious hypocrisy.

It's not fair to call an atheist a hypocrite just because they don't believe what you believe.
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:55 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by shart1780
I think you're missing my point. The main point I'm trying to make is that if you're trying to claim that there is no true, concrete right and wrong that may be completely unscathed by the way we view things then, then there really is no point on casting any sort of judgments on others' actions.
That is your subjective experience.

On the contrary, many people move forward the best they can, realizing that someday, they might be proven to be wrong, based on life experience and evidence.

Stubbornness is not a virtue, but a vice. President Bush, certainly, will learn that lesson the hard way.

Melon
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:55 PM   #41
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How is it that absolute statements are always used to define relativist positions?


For the true non-absolutist, the opinion can never be extended beyond the individual, otherwise it would be self-defeating.
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:55 PM   #42
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Aggghhh... need to learn how to quote properly.
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:57 PM   #43
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Originally posted by WildHoneyAlways
I've had far too long of a day to start talking about religious hypocrisy.

It's not fair to call an atheist a hypocrite just because they don't believe what you believe.
I'd like you to let me know how I'm specifically being hypocritical here, and I'd also like to hear what you, as an atheist (if you are one) feels why anything can be viewed in an objective sense.
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Old 07-13-2006, 10:58 PM   #44
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
How is it that absolute statements are always used to define relativist positions?


For the true non-absolutist, the opinion can never be extended beyond the individual, otherwise it would be self-defeating.
Yes, Crusader, I agree, I'm just not as good at wording things. Heh heh.
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Old 07-14-2006, 12:06 AM   #45
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I have requested that the discussion of this in the other thread be split off into a separate thread. I will build upon that "discussion," if that's what we can call this.
Sorry melon, I only just now checked my report-posts. Let me see what I can do...splitting then merging is a wee bit tricky.
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