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Old 01-08-2008, 11:23 PM   #436
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Man, I really don't want another 4-8 years of a Clinton or a Bush.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:24 PM   #437
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Man, I really don't want another 4-8 years of a Clinton or a Bush.
I want Obama over Clinton as much as the next guy/girl, but can we not lump Clinton and Bush together as though they're the same thing?
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:24 PM   #438
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It's sort of hitting me like a brick in the face how much John Edwards could actually hurt Obama's chances. He got 17% of the vote tonight. That's almost 1/5 of the vote. I think it's fairly safe to say Obama would get at least 2/3 of that support.

Edwards can't win and he knows it. If he's really as anti-Hillary as he appears to be, it would be serve him well to drop out ASAP.
John Edwards is an arrogant prick.

If he truly wanted to help his party, he'd bail.

He wants to help himself only.

He's not anti-Hillary because he hates Hillary, he ran in 04 on 'returning' to the Clinton years prosperity etc. He's anti-Hillary now because he can't beat either of them in a three way race and certainly cant beat Obama head to head. He saw what Obama was doing and tried to piggy back him.

Really, he's on an ego trip.
Doing much worse than 2004, he's been more or less running for President for 4 years. While Clinton and Obama have been legislating, he's been building up his public stock.

Snake oil salesman deluxe. I hope he costs Obama just so you all will hate him as much as I hate him.

Sadly, I agree with his politics, for the most part.
I just can't stand a fake bastard. Now, rich, aloof, arrogant and snooty (Gore/Kerry/Clintons) I can deal with.
Fake is another thing. Populist my ass.

Why does he have to remind people incessantly what his FATHER did for a living? Because that's his only real selling point for credibility.

I can understand why people like him.
Because they believe him. I don't.
So don't be offended because I hate him. That's JMO.
Politically, I'm pretty much right there with ya.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:25 PM   #439
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I can't see myself voting for Hillary in the general election.

I hope that Edwards, Kucinich, and Richardson drop out and their people pick their first choice from the top two.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:27 PM   #440
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Quote:
Originally posted by namkcuR


I want Obama over Clinton as much as the next guy/girl, but can we not lump Clinton and Bush together as though they're the same thing?

Here's what they have in common - a divided America. Now, I'm not naive enough to believe that Obama (or anyone else for that matter) won't struggle with the same thing, but Clinton in the White House ENSURES another term of back biting.

Half of the country HATE her. I doubt most of them know why, but there it is. I like her. I think she would make a strong president, but in my mind she can never sit in that office because of how divisive she has become.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:28 PM   #441
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I can't see myself voting for Hillary in the general election.
You would go from Obama to a Republican candidate?

Why?
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:28 PM   #442
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Yea I know. If it wasn't for oil we wouldn't be there. But I see something wrong in going to war to protect oil interests. And if anything, we could have gone, fought Iraq in Kuwait, and then came back. We didn't need the base. We really didn't.
Except Gulf War I never really ended. It then became a base for operations to enforce U.N. sanctions against Iraq.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:29 PM   #443
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Originally posted by namkcuR


but can we not lump Clinton and Bush together as though they're the same thing?
Exactly. I don't get why Hillary is being vilified just because this wunderkind has burst upon the scene. She's not satan. I think she'd be a capable leader, and, like Anitram mentioned earlier, she has a toughness that I admire. Plus, she's well aware of how the game is played, how politics can get dirty, and I think she's up for it, she won't fold.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:29 PM   #444
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Originally posted by phanan


You would go from Obama to a Republican candidate?

Why?
If the Republican is Ron Paul, then that is understandable.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:32 PM   #445
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Exactly. I don't get why Hillary is being vilified just because this wunderkind has burst upon the scene. She's not satan. I think she'd be a capable leader, and, like Anitram mentioned earlier, she has a toughness that I admire. Plus, she's well aware of how the game is played, how politics can get dirty, and I think she's up for it, she won't fold.
I agree. While I think Obama is an excellent speaker and a great motivator, I think Clinton would do a good job also.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:34 PM   #446
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While none of us may understand why she is vilified, the point is she has very high negatives.. That's what scares me going into the general. A lot of people simply don't like her, even if we dont' understand why.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:34 PM   #447
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Quote:
Originally posted by namkcuR

but can we not lump Clinton and Bush together as though they're the same thing?
I think the perception is there partially because she accepted money from the same big business interests that helped Bush - drug, oil, and health care companies, etc.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:36 PM   #448
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I agree. While I think Obama is an excellent speaker and a great motivator, I think Clinton would do a good job also.
Exactly. Hypothetically, if she were to win the nom, and as such, became the only Dem option, Dem voters would rally around her, and her spin machine would check polls and public sentiment and mold her into a candidate who would be appealing to independents. It's not certain loss if she gets the nomination. Far from it.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:37 PM   #449
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Originally posted by VintagePunk


Exactly. I don't get why Hillary is being vilified just because this wunderkind has burst upon the scene. She's not satan. I think she'd be a capable leader, and, like Anitram mentioned earlier, she has a toughness that I admire. Plus, she's well aware of how the game is played, how politics can get dirty, and I think she's up for it, she won't fold.
I have to admit I would LOVE to see all the people who hate her absolutely shitting bricks if she became president.

To me Obama and Clinton are pretty much interchangeable in terms of policy -- their differences are mainly stylistic. Both are too far on the right for me to really like and since I dislike and distrust all politicians on principle, I'm finding it mighty hard to get very excited.

Watching the brickshitting would be fun though....
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:37 PM   #450
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No matter who wins, I'm glad that this is turning out to be a real primary, not that farce of one in 2004.
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