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Old 01-07-2008, 02:33 AM   #166
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Originally posted by Axver


The EU, Australia, New Zealand, et al. socially and politically depend on the US? Get the fuck over yourself. I find your arrogant Americentrism insulting.

Hell, New Zealand doesn't depend on the US for anything. We've been doing just fine after you guys had that little hissy fit in the mid-1980s and suspended the ANZUS treaty because we wouldn't let your government infringe our sovereignty.
Sting is definately an extremist when it comes to U.S. nationalism. Personally I see no need in nationalism, but that's just me. But what I find interesting is that yearly Sting posts the world's 'Quality of Living' results and the U.S. isn't at number 1 yet he always acts as if it is...
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Old 01-07-2008, 02:40 AM   #167
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Originally posted by Strongbow

Well I hate to break it to you that the United States impact on the rest of the world goes well beyond simply its military power for well over 60 years now.
No, of course it does. I'm sitting here wearing Nikes, I just drank a Coke and I work for a major US film studio. There is absolutely no doubting the US dominance of popular culture over the past 60 years, nor their dominance in international politics.

My comment was based on yours being a direct response to anitram. She's talking about the religious right using gay marriage as bait in the 2004 election, and your comment comes directly after that. It reads like you are saying that socially and/or via domestic policies, the world looks to the US for some sort of foundation or something. I am probably reading it wrong, but in that context, that's how it reads. If so, you couldn't be more wrong. I love the US, truly do. It is, however, very easy to sit there as I did last Friday night and watch about an hour of Fox News as they talk the most ignorant rubbish about the world and the people that inhabit it, interview someone like Mike Huckabee who somehow despite (you'd think) having absolutely every road block created by the common sense and mild average intelligence of the public in his way, is not just a serious contender for a major public office, but a serious contender for THE major public office, all while cutting over to LA for the latest updates on the Britney drama, and you just sit there wondering what the f*ck is in the water over there?

Anti-Americanism in some form is always going to exist while the US does have such dominance globally in various ways. If you're a dominant sports team in a competition, even if that team is loaded with good guys who got there purely by working hard for it, a third of people will admire you, a third will be respectfully competitive, and a third will just hate you. But if the team is perceived to be loaded with bad boys who play dirty, and do so simply because they believe it is their birthright to be # 1, well, you're going to lose loads of the respect and admiration, if not all of it.

Make no mistake - arguments over policies and doctrines aside - the Bush years and it's bringing of the conservative, religious, guns'n'jesus Republican right to front and centre on the global stage did (completely and totally unfairly) damage the image of the US greatly.

Of course the cultural dominance is still there, of course the political dominance is still there. However, for a couple of years there the image of some ignorant middle-American in a truck with a God Bless America bumpersticker, on his way to church, stopping to talk to someone with a camera, telling them that absolutely Iraq should be invaded because of 9/11 (before then not being able to find Iraq on a map), was, unfortunately, the image that US social/political beliefs had globally. It was wrong and unfair, but that was the easy beat up for a couple of years there. Anyone who paid any closer attention to the US, or travelled there since 9/11 (personally, I've made 4 US visits since then, love the place, will be back for nearly a month in Sept/Oct) would know that it wasn't reality, and now I think that is obvious to absolutely everyone.

It's why everyone is genuinely excited at the looming passing of the Bush years, and hence the massive interest in this election, and massive support for Obama globally. He seems to represent the US that people the world over honestly really do like a lot, rather than the last 8 years where it seems to have been represented by the US that people think is a little bit crazy, but mostly just woefully ignorant.
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:21 AM   #168
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Thompson is a klutz. He can't remember anything. I'm going with McCain and Hillary.
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:27 AM   #169
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Yeah, Strongbow is Sting.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:26 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeannieco

As far as joyfulgirl posting that she didn't like the fact that he voted to fund the war at every turn.. well that is NOT true. He spoke out AGAINST it to begin with and....he voted against funding the war and guess who was waiting in the wings to see which way he would vote at the last minute? Hillary. She didn't vote until he did and voted the same way AGAINST the funding so that they couldn't hold that over her head.
Yes, he voted against that important bill. But he voted for appropriations funding the war through 2006 ("for the troops," a position many agreed with--I did not) after his initial vote against the war to begin with, and he missed the key vote on the Kyl Lieberman Amendment while criticizing Hillary for voting for it. He and Hillary have almost identical voting records on Iraq yet she is criticized for being pro-war while he is anti-war (and I'm no fan of Hillary). I just find that a bit disingenuous but it's old news now. Kucinich was the only one who consistently voted against funding the war. I'm not saying any of this is a deal-breaker for me when it comes to November, just pointing out that Obama has his flaws like everyone else.


Quote:
Originally posted by maycocksean

Not everyone who supports Obama is being swept away by the fervor. I've been an admirer of his since well before he was a candidate, and believe me, if anything, I've been more disappointed in him, not less since he started campaigning. I'm trusting that he's still the same guy that I read about back in 2006, but I also realize he's human and as likely to fall victim to the usual political temptations that most people do. I didn't like a number of things he's done/said since he declared his candidacy but on the whole I still think he could provide the fresh leadership, and yes, change, that this country needs.

I don't much care for Kool-Aid.
Sorry, I meant no offense by the Kool-Aid comment and wasn't referring to anyone here at all, more the rock star treatment he was getting after last week's victory. It's an expression a friend and I use in jest a lot, most often in reference to ourselves when we get swept up by things. Anyway, you could be right about Obama, I don't know. It is truly refreshing to see so many people actually excited about voting again. I'm still cynical about all of them but there's still a ways to go yet in this campaign.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:28 AM   #171
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I can't blame anyone for voting for the funding even if they're against the war. I simply do not think it is right to take away money as long as there is a single troop over there. It's a difficult situation to vote a simple "yea" or "nay" when it is far more complicated than that.
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Old 01-07-2008, 10:48 AM   #172
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Originally posted by U2democrat
I can't blame anyone for voting for the funding even if they're against the war. I simply do not think it is right to take away money as long as there is a single troop over there. It's a difficult situation to vote a simple "yea" or "nay" when it is far more complicated than that.
It's kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't thing, and voting yea or nay are political decisions made in the moment.
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:41 AM   #173
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The site that I believe has been the most accurate in polling over the last ten years put Obama 10% up and McCain 6% up.
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:59 AM   #174
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I think it's quite clear both have the necessary momentum to win tomorrow.

While watching the debate, I was struck by how presidential Obama looked. Carefully listening, a single finger across his lips, deep in thought.

I don't know. He just struck me as a man who looks like he could be a President.

I also couldn't help but think that Edwards was stumping for a possible VP spot. He liked to mention that he came in second in Iowa, but instead of going after the person ahead of him, he went after Clinton. If he thinks his second place finish was so good, why worry about her? If he really wants to be President, shouldn't he have challenged Obama at all? They seemed awfully chummy to me that night.

Clinton reacted with a bit of anger at that moment, which I think was a mistake. She seemed to lose control. A better approach would have been to use humor. She should have retorted back that she didn't know this was a VP debate, or something along the lines of Edwards appearing to be happy being #2.

Just random thoughts I'm having going into tomorrow's vote.
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:02 PM   #175
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Originally posted by phanan


I also couldn't help but think that Edwards was stumping for a possible VP spot. He liked to mention that he came in second in Iowa, but instead of going after the person ahead of him, he went after Clinton. If he thinks his second place finish was so good, why worry about her? If he really wants to be President, shouldn't he have challenged Obama at all? They seemed awfully chummy to me that night.

Clinton reacted with a bit of anger at that moment, which I think was a mistake. She seemed to lose control.
I agree. Wow what a ticket would that be, Obama and Edwards...
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Old 01-07-2008, 12:08 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally posted by phanan

While watching the debate, I was struck by how presidential Obama looked. Carefully listening, a single finger across his lips, deep in thought.

I don't know. He just struck me as a man who looks like he could be a President.

I also couldn't help but think that Edwards was stumping for a possible VP spot. He liked to mention that he came in second in Iowa, but instead of going after the person ahead of him, he went after Clinton. If he thinks his second place finish was so good, why worry about her? If he really wants to be President, shouldn't he have challenged Obama at all? They seemed awfully chummy to me that night.
I agree with all of this. I caught the repeat last night and those same exact thoughts were running through my head the entire time.

Hillary seems to be losing more and more ground with each passing day.

I only wish that Obama and/or Edwards was on the ballot for the Michigan primary here in a couple of weeks.
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Old 01-07-2008, 01:04 PM   #177
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Originally posted by LarryMullen's_POPAngel


I agree with all of this. I caught the repeat last night and those same exact thoughts were running through my head the entire time.

Hillary seems to be losing more and more ground with each passing day.

I only wish that Obama and/or Edwards was on the ballot for the Michigan primary here in a couple of weeks.
You have no idea how pissed off I am about that. The primary is next Tuesday isn't it, the 15th?
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Old 01-07-2008, 01:21 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by phanan
I think it's quite clear both have the necessary momentum to win tomorrow.

While watching the debate, I was struck by how presidential Obama looked. Carefully listening, a single finger across his lips, deep in thought.

I don't know. He just struck me as a man who looks like he could be a President.

I also couldn't help but think that Edwards was stumping for a possible VP spot. He liked to mention that he came in second in Iowa, but instead of going after the person ahead of him, he went after Clinton. If he thinks his second place finish was so good, why worry about her? If he really wants to be President, shouldn't he have challenged Obama at all? They seemed awfully chummy to me that night.

Oh ya!! I totally agree. I have been saying that for a long time...
OBAMA/EDWARDS.
Edwards could take the health care platform and hit the ground running. They would make a great team!

Gore/Obama was my ideal ticket but that was not to be.
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Old 01-07-2008, 01:30 PM   #179
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Originally posted by Infinitum98


I can honestly say that after 9/11 I was very proud to be American, but for some reason, over the last 7 years that pride went to zero.

I don't know why that happened.
Please tell me you are being sarcastic.

Otherwise I will be happy to explain to you.
But something tells me you already know.
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Old 01-07-2008, 01:51 PM   #180
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Originally posted by U2isthebest


You have no idea how pissed off I am about that. The primary is next Tuesday isn't it, the 15th?
Yes.

I was going to go and vote, but after finding out that neither Obama or Edwards was in the running I lost all desire to. I read that even if you were to write in their names it would not be counted.

There was an article in the Free Press about all the ins and outs of why, but I can't seem to find it now. If I do, I'll post it.
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