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Old 03-14-2004, 05:55 PM   #76
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I suppose if you believe that they targeted Spain because of Iraq, then yes, Spain will be pulling out.

However, Al-Qaeda, if they did indeed do this, would certainly be smart enough to say publicly it was about Iraq. However, SPain has been a huge partner in helping dismantal Al-Qaeda's organization. If they publicly came out and said "We hit Spain because they have hurt out organization" it would be much less effective at causing the outcry against the party that was in power.

[Q]AP: Madrid Suspect Linked to 9/11 Figure


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Mar 14, 5:16 PM (ET)

By ANDREW SELSKY


MADRID, Spain (AP) - One of the three Moroccans arrested in the Madrid train bombings is linked to a suspected al-Qaida member jailed in Spain for allegedly helping plan the Sept. 11 attack in the United States, according to court documents reviewed by The Associated Press. It was the latest suggestion that Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida terrorist group may have been involved in the bombings.[/Q]

Maybe the truth is, they went after Sapin because of the War against them.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040314/D81ADJH80.html
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Old 03-14-2004, 06:13 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
I suppose if you believe that they targeted Spain because of Iraq, then yes, Spain will be pulling out.
The Socialist party, like the majority of people in Spain, opposed the war all along. So if Spain was to withdraw from Iraq, I think it's possible that they would have done so anyway once the Socialists were elected, regardless of whether the attacks were due to involvement in Iraq or not.

Just my opinion.
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Old 03-14-2004, 06:22 PM   #78
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I think you miss my point...and I do not want to derail this thread. I do not believe they targeted over Iraq if it was Al-Qaeda. I do believe they are smart enough to use the war opposition to use bombing to influence this election with a well placed blombing. Time will tell.
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Old 03-14-2004, 06:28 PM   #79
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It does appear that the attack may have been by Al Quada now, although still not confirmed. The Election of the Socialist government means the withdrawal of the 1,300 Spanish soldiers from Iraq. It is the election of a government that sees "appeasement" as the best way to combat terrorism. Whether or not Al Quada is responsible for the bombings, this election result is a victory for Al Quada and Saddam Loyalist in Iraq. It also means Al Quada with 15 bombs has knocked out a government that was a big ally of the United States. It is unfortunate that 42% of Spanish voters voted this way in my opinion. This will only encourage similar attacks.
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Old 03-14-2004, 06:50 PM   #80
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What a week for Spain. They had an 80% voter turnout in that election. They decided to go with the opposition. Things will be different. My hat is off to the people of Spain for showing the terrorists and the world that terrorism isn't going to stop democracy.
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Old 03-14-2004, 07:48 PM   #81
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Sting,
I don't think it's fair to describe a government which opposed the war on Iraq as supporting the "appeasment" of terrorists. Many people who opposed the war did so because they did not believe there was any connection between Saddam Hussein's regime and al-Qaeda, and therefore invading Iraq was not the best way of fighting al-Qaeda. They didn't believe in "appeasing" al-Qaeda, they believed that there was no reason to go into Iraq and cause the devastation which we have seen there when there was no proof that it would do anything to aid the fight against terrorism.
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Old 03-14-2004, 07:50 PM   #82
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Dread,
I know you don't want to de-rail this thread (maybe we can start a new one if people are interested in discussing this?) but I just wanted to ask you: to what extent do you think al-Qaeda are interested in influencing the outcome of domestic elections in the West?
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Old 03-14-2004, 10:05 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
Sting,
I don't think it's fair to describe a government which opposed the war on Iraq as supporting the "appeasment" of terrorists. Many people who opposed the war did so because they did not believe there was any connection between Saddam Hussein's regime and al-Qaeda, and therefore invading Iraq was not the best way of fighting al-Qaeda. They didn't believe in "appeasing" al-Qaeda, they believed that there was no reason to go into Iraq and cause the devastation which we have seen there when there was no proof that it would do anything to aid the fight against terrorism.

I think it is fair and accurate to describe the vote for this Socialist government as an attempt to appease terrorist. The Perception by many people in Spain is that if they were not involved in the removal and disarmament of Saddam, the terrorist attack would not of happened. It was a surprise that the PP was defeated and no doubt, the terrorist actions produced this outcome.

The security problems presented by Saddam's refusal to Verifiably disarm of all WMD were the chief reasons why members of the international community finally used military force to enforce UN resolutions after having tried other means to bring about enforcement for 12 YEARS without success.

Saddam indeed had connections to some types of terrorism although it is has yet to be confirmed that there were any strong links with Al Quada. But this is not relevant to the security concerns of the UN that involved Saddam's failure to Verifiably disarm of all WMD following his invasion of Kuwait and then defeat in the 1991 Gulf War. Saddam never complied with any of the 17 UN resolutions passed against him under Chapter VII rules of the UN allowing for the use of military force as a means of enforcement.
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Old 03-15-2004, 05:11 AM   #84
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Did Saddam run as president candidate in Spain ?


Anyway,..just on the radio. The new President of Spain just decided to pull back the troops out off Iraq. Zapatero said, i do not bow to the terror but we were always against the Iraq war.

So Iraq people, they will leave you alone after they made your country a paradise for terrorists.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:35 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
I think it is fair and accurate to describe the vote for this Socialist government as an attempt to appease terrorist.
That's not what you said in your original post though: you said that the Socialist party supported appeasment, not that people voted for them in order to appease terrorists. They're two separate allegations.

I have no intention of derailing this thread with yet another debate about UN resolutions, but as you're well aware, I think it's ridiculous to claim the UN backed this war when you consider that the pro-war countries refused to even have a vote on the subject because they knew they would be defeated. There is so much more I want to say on that subject, but this is a thread about Madrid and the Spanish elections, so I'm not going to say it.
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Old 03-15-2004, 08:57 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
I think it is fair and accurate to describe the vote for this Socialist government as an attempt to appease terrorist.
So by reversing this analogy this would mean that a vote for Bush in the November elections is an attempt at war-mongering and murder.

Great way to describe election outcomes...

Marty
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Old 03-15-2004, 12:03 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
It was a surprise that the PP was defeated and no doubt, the terrorist actions produced this outcome.
The PP itself is partially to blame for the outcome of this election. Many people think the PP kept on claiming it was ETA to further their election campaign. They simply don't trust the PP anymore.
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Old 03-15-2004, 12:09 PM   #88
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I agree with DrTeeth. Lots of people in Spain are furious at how the PP attempted to cover up evidence that al-Qaeda were behind the attacks, knowing that it could influence the outcome of the election. To play politics with something like this is unforgivable and many people voted against them because of this.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:10 PM   #89
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I agree with Dr. Teeth and Fizz. People were angered at the PP's handling of the bombing and thought they were playing politics. A demonstration against the government over this was held Saturday, attracting thousands of people. I think the last damn thing the Spanish voters intended to do was to appease terrorists.
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Old 03-15-2004, 03:53 PM   #90
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Fizz- agree with your> opposing the war on Iraq- does not always = apppeasing terrorists. Contrary to what Team Bush, Limbaugh & Ann Coultair sez.

near noon {us east coast time} I heard on our Public Radio station a comment that sais, sometimes Al Queda will use someone else's terror attack to their advtange. So it seems, I guess, the Madrid attack is still up in the air, as to who perpetrated it.

I didn't even watch the TV News footage. The photos & articles in Sat & Sun's papers made me cry as it was.
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