MERGED--> Jesus Camp + Michael Moore and ...

[MrsSpringsteen]

Michael Moore And Jesus Camp

Michael Moore isn't even affiliated with this film, just showing it at his film festival. That equals an endorsement? And it sounds to me as if this film is a positive or at the very least neutral and non-judgmental depiction of the kids and their born again Christian faith- yet the view is that people would automatically reject it due to any affiiliation with Moore, no matter how miniscule or immaterial? Isn't that just shooting yourself in the foot? Or maybe it is all just a publicity stunt.

"Ignoring a request to remove the documentary "Jesus Camp" from its lineup, Michael Moore's Traverse City (Mich.) Film Festival ahead Friday with the first of two screenings of the film.

The documentary looks at a summer camp for born-again Christian children, and has won top jury awards at this year's Tribeca Film Festival and AFI SilverDocs Film Festival.

After Magnolia Films acquired North American distribution rights last week, the company asked festival organizers to drop the film because it was concerned that any association with the polarizing director of "Fahrenheit 9/11" could damage its prospects in conservative circles.

In a statement issued Friday, Moore called Magnolia's request "truly one of the worst publicity stunts I have ever seen."

Moore added, "I had no intention of showing 'Jesus Camp' in this festival. The producers begged me to show it. I said OK. Then they sent me the film this week to show it in the festival. (Then), one day before its screening, after all its tickets have been sold, they sent me and the press a fax saying they want the film pulled."

A second screening is scheduled for Saturday.

Because the film presents the material in a manner that is considered by many who have seen it as fair and objective, Magnolia Films president Eamonn Bowles said Thursday he considers it "a Rorshach test. It's very neutral, right down the middle, and different people take away different things from it."

He plans to release "Jesus" in more conservative Christian markets where art films aren't commonly shown, in addition to the indie company's traditional art house venues.

"The reality of the world we live in today is that if Michael Moore endorses it, tens of millions will automatically reject it," said Bowles."

Reuters/Hollywood Reporter

 

[verte76]

People should just judge the film on its own merits and ignore who showed it where. That's probably not very realistic to expect but if it shows Christians in a good light they'll embrace it eventually.

 

[silja]

Re: Michael Moore And Jesus Camp

In a statement issued Friday, Moore called Magnolia's request "truly one of the worst publicity stunts I have ever seen."

Moore added, "I had no intention of showing 'Jesus Camp' in this festival. The producers begged me to show it. I said OK. Then they sent me the film this week to show it in the festival. (Then), one day before its screening, after all its tickets have been sold, they sent me and the press a fax saying they want the film pulled."

If one is to believe what Michael Moore says (and I'm leaning towards believing him) then the producers have a serious credibility problem. But that'll probably get lost in the usual right-left fundamentalist scream-fest.

ETA: I don't mean the scream-fest here but the one on Fox News et al.

 

[Irvine511]

i've seen "Jesus Camp."

it is superb. it is everything a documentary should be.

 

[Muggsy]

what is jesus camp?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

i've seen "Jesus Camp."

it is superb. it is everything a documentary should be.

Can you tell us more about it, I'd love to know

 

[Irvine511]

Can you tell us more about it, I'd love to know

it follows a few kids (ages 8-11 or so) as they go to a Pentacostal camp in the summer.

here's a synopsis:

[q]On the surface, Levi and Rachael are pretty typical young teenagers; they enjoy hanging out with their friends, listening to music, spending time in the mall, and going away to summer camp. Yet, unlike most American teenagers, they also consider themselves to be young soldiers in the "Army of God."

From SILVERDOCS 2005 award-winning filmmakers Rachel Grady and Heidi Ewing (THE BOYS OF BARAKA) comes this extraordinary film about the newest generation of Christian evangelicals, and the parents, teachers, preachers, and counselors who are committed to inculcating them from the start with radical fundamentalist beliefs. The film exposes a startlingly sizeable generation of young kids growing up in a somewhat alternate-universe from mainstream culture. They are largely home-schooled and raised on a creationist curriculum, with extracurricular activities chiefly dedicated to converting non-believers.

Summers are spent at Becky Fischer's "Kids on Fire" camp in Devil's Lake, North Dakota, where they make new like-minded friends, pray together, and gain inspiration from Fischer's hyperbolic sermons.

Often disregarded as extremist and marginal, this probing documentary reveals just how pervasive and potent this presumably "fringe" culture is, and the impact it may have-and has already had-on American politics.

http://www.silverdocs.com/2006/films/jesus.aspx

[/q]

 

[Justin24]

Will Moore edit this film to his liking, which he did with Farenheit 9/11 and Bowling for Columbine?

 

[80sU2isBest]

here's a synopsis:

[q]On the surface, Levi and Rachael are pretty typical young teenagers; they enjoy hanging out with their friends, listening to music, spending time in the mall, and going away to summer camp. Yet, unlike most American teenagers, they also consider themselves to be young soldiers in the "Army of God."

From SILVERDOCS 2005 award-winning filmmakers Rachel Grady and Heidi Ewing (THE BOYS OF BARAKA) comes this extraordinary film about the newest generation of Christian evangelicals, and the parents, teachers, preachers, and counselors who are committed to inculcating them from the start with radical fundamentalist beliefs. The film exposes a startlingly sizeable generation of young kids growing up in a somewhat alternate-universe from mainstream culture. They are largely home-schooled and raised on a creationist curriculum, with extracurricular activities chiefly dedicated to converting non-believers.

Summers are spent at Becky Fischer's "Kids on Fire" camp in Devil's Lake, North Dakota, where they make new like-minded friends, pray together, and gain inspiration from Fischer's hyperbolic sermons.

Often disregarded as extremist and marginal, this probing documentary reveals just how pervasive and potent this presumably "fringe" culture is, and the impact it may have-and has already had-on American politics.

http://www.silverdocs.com/2006/films/jesus.aspx

[/q]

Hmmm...their own press release doesn't exactly match up with Reuters said:

"Because the film presents the material in a manner that is considered by many who have seen it as fair and objective, Magnolia Films president Eamonn Bowles said Thursday he considers it "a Rorshach test. It's very neutral, right down the middle, and different people take away different things from it."

 

[Irvine511]

^ keep in mind that the synopsis was written by the festival in which it won the Grand Jury Prize (SILVERDOCS). it was not written by the filmmakers themselves.

the filmmakers did say that every single person in the film has seen the film and support it 100%.

i would agree with the assessment of the film as a Rorshach test.

i found it deeply terrifying. others would find it deeply affirming.

i also don't see how the words you've highlighted, at all, are indicative of any bias on the part of the film. they would themselves call themselves "radical," and they would themselves tell you that "mainstream" America (they do not consider themselvs mainstream, in fact, they view themselves as a minority) has no idea how big the Pentacostal fundamentalist movement is.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Will Moore edit this film to his liking, which he did with Farenheit 9/11 and Bowling for Columbine?

He's not involved with the making of Jesus Camp. The only issue involved his film festival.

 

[Justin24]

Ok.

 

[80sU2isBest]

^i also don't see how the words you've highlighted, at all, are indicative of any bias on the part of the film. they would themselves call themselves "radical," and they would themselves tell you that "mainstream" America (they do not consider themselvs mainstream, in fact, they view themselves as a minority) has no idea how big the Pentacostal fundamentalist movement is.

Because the following terms are always used in a negative connotation in print and broadcast media. It is no accident that the media does this. They are painting the word picture with their own views.

inculcating

radical

fundamentalist

 

[Irvine511]

Because the following terms are always used in a negative connotation in print and broadcast media. It is no accident that the media does this. They are painting the word picture with their own views.

inculcating

radical

fundamentalist

well, again, what i posted was not written by the filmmakers, it was written by the film festival.

and the people in the film would agree with those words -- they see themselves as radical, and they see themselves as fundamentalist, and they would regard those words as compliments.

maybe you should see the film and judge for yourself.

i can't stress enough how good it was.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Here's the summary from the Tribeca site. I would tend to agree that some people have certain opinions about certain types of Christians or Christians in general that would create a bias towards any movie such as this. I would see it and make up my own mind. This summary doesn't exactly seem unbiased- but like the original article says, the movie is a Rorshach test of sorts

"In Jesus Camp, Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady, directors of the acclaimed film The Boys of Baraka, introduce us to children who are growing up as evangelical Christians. Twelve-year-old Levi, who was "saved" when he was five, is a shy boy except when he is filled with the Holy Spirit. Nine-year-old Rachael is outspoken in her love for the Lord. They are home-schooled by their Christian parents and interact with their peers at church and church events. In the summer they travel to Becky Fischer's "Kids on Fire" summer camp in Devil's Lake, North Dakota, to intensify their devotion to the Lord. Fischer is a children's pastor, who specializes in tapping into the hearts and minds of kids on their level. She recognizes that this generation accesses information through video, images, and music. Intercut with scenes of the kids is the radio commentary of Mike Papantonio, a Christian who believes that the Evangelical movement has strayed from the original teachings of love that Jesus died for. He worries that the movement's position on the environment, creationism, and other fundamental tenets are short-sighted and will hurt the conservative movement in the end. And where does the government land in all this? The Evangelicals apply unceasing pressure to their elected officials, and have made great strides with Bush as their president. What kind of force will these kids be in politics and religion when they grow up? The kids of Jesus Camp are smart, empowered, speak in tongues, and are determined to change the world."
- Nancy Schafer

The web site for the movie

http://lokifilms.com/site/jesuscamp.html

 

[Irvine511]

what impressed me most about the film was how terrific the kids were -- smart, endearing, articulate, and extremely sympathetic.

and they scared the shit out of me.

but that was my reaction, not a reaction engineered by the filmmakers. the quality of filmmaking is on such a high level that there's not a whiff any sort of manipulation.

 

[anitram]

but that was my reaction, not a reaction engineered by the filmmakers. the quality of filmmaking is on such a high level that there's not a whiff any sort of manipulation.

I haven't seen the film, but I imagine this is a very fair statement.

For example, I find Christian fundamentalists to be extremely frightening, so that's a notion I'd bring into the film, regardless of how the filmmakers filmed it. That's why I don't think commentary on the film should be taken as a reason to see or not to see the film - just like any piece of art, you'll take from it what you would anyway.

 

[verte76]

Now I want to see this movie.

 

[nathan1977]

Is the "fundamentalism" in this film defined so by the filmmakers, the subjects, or the posters here?

And how is the fundamentalism defined? And how is it reflected in the kids?

 

[Muggsy]

what impressed me most about the film was how terrific the kids were -- smart, endearing, articulate, and extremely sympathetic.

and they scared the shit out of me.

hehehe.... extremely good people are always scary... you don't know what to expect from them

the film sounds really interesting

 

[80sU2isBest]

Is the "fundamentalism" in this film defined so by the filmmakers, the subjects, or the posters here?

And how is the fundamentalism defined? And how is it reflected in the kids?

Those are very good, helpful and necessary questions.

I for one define "fundamentalist Christians" in a very simple and nonpolitical way.

I was raised as a Baptist and exposure to the goings on of the Southern Baptist convention taught me the term "fundamentalist" in the 80s, long before it developed its political connotation and became such a prevalent buzzword with the media. In its truest, nonpolitical sense, "fundamentalist Christian" simply means a Christian who accepts the Bible as the inerrant Word of God.

 

[Irvine511]

Is the "fundamentalism" in this film defined so by the filmmakers, the subjects, or the posters here?

And how is the fundamentalism defined? And how is it reflected in the kids?

i believe the woman in the film, Becky Fischer, calls herself a fundamentalist, and literal readings of the Bible (world created in 7 Days, etc.) are promoted by her camp.

it is reflected in the kids through their interviews, and through their participation in various camp activities.

though we need to remember that many fundamentalists don't consider other people who also define themselves as fundamentalists to be true fundamentalists (hence, the problem with fundamentalism). so it's a self-definition, one that you (or others) might disagree with. and they are a specific denomination -- Pentacostal.

what i also think is interesting is that one could walk into this film and want it to be biased, to be the result of a bunch of liberal NYC documentary filmmaking women who just hate Christians, and i'm sure you could sew together an analysis to support such a hypothesis.

however, if you speak to the filmmakers, as i did, you'd know just how much they actually fell in love with their subjects, the extent to which they defended their subjects from what were rather incredulous questions from the audience in the post-screening Q&A session, and how mightily they struggled to make it as straightforward and matter-of-fact as possible.

i can't say it enough -- it's a great film. i hope it makes waves at the Oscars.

 

[shart1780]

Is this in the theaters or something? It seems like I would have at least heard of it.

I honestly can't get too excited about anything Moore does. I'll watch it anyways though.

 

[Irvine511]

Is this in the theaters or something? It seems like I would have at least heard of it.

I honestly can't get too excited about anything Moore does. I'll watch it anyways though.

Moore didn't make the film. he just has a film festival and wants to show it there. it was made by Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady.

it is currently playing the film festival circuit and seems to have secured a distributer. my guess is that it will continue on the circuit for a while, garner awards and build itself a resume, and then it will start to be slowly released to sophisticated urban markets in the fall (NYC, LA, SF, Boston, DC, Chicago) and then slowly work it's way into second tier markets (usually college towns) and try to get a kind of "buzz" that might break it into the box office top 20, and then make it a contender when awards season starts in the new year.

 

[shart1780]

Oh ok. Nice to see Moore didn't make it.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Irvine,
I've been reading your impressions of the film and they have me very intrigued. I may have to see this film when it plays here.

 

[Irvine511]

i honestly think everyone on FYM should make an effort to see it.

i think it would make for a fascinating thread.

 

[nbcrusader]

but that was my reaction, not a reaction engineered by the filmmakers. the quality of filmmaking is on such a high level that there's not a whiff any sort of manipulation.

Reading the original article, this sounds in line with other's reviews of the film.

But, I'd agree with the distributor. Associate with Michael Moore paints a different picture regarding the substance and approach of the documentary.

 

[Irvine511]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co1_9lR9EpM

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Because the following terms are always used in a negative connotation in print and broadcast media. It is no accident that the media does this. They are painting the word picture with their own views.

inculcating

radical

fundamentalist

I've heard of this piece of crap. They take a look at the most radical sect of Christianity and expose it as if it had any link to mainstream Christianity. I guess the good thing about it is that it proves Rosie O'Donnell dead wrong for saying that radical Christianity is just as bad as radical Islam. What a ridiculous statement.

As for those who have deep resentment for Christianity, go ahead and watch it, and make sure you follow it up with Valley of the Wolves.