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Old 02-26-2007, 03:30 PM   #76
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Maybe people find it strange, scary, evil, because they live differently and are not as happy as these people are???
Um...no. If I were forced to live in that camp I would not be happy. I'd lapse into catatonic depression.
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:32 PM   #77
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No one is forcing these kids to live there. I am sure they could have told their parents they don't want to go. You might lapse because you may not have much joy for Jesus or true strong believe as they are? Just saying ok RHS.
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:40 PM   #78
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I went to a Pentecostal school in Newfoundland even though I am not Pentecostal and was exposed to much of this crap as a kid. Being shown abortion videos as a 10 year old, back masking of music, and so on. As far as I was concerned, it was a cult with all the church people thinking they were the shit while everyone else was missing something. They had events where people burned records, asked people to get saved at school assemblies, one pastor told us Jesus was coming back "this" year back in 1983, it was nuts. They had similar things to Jesus camp like a youth group called Crusaders. And then you realize that their true behaviour was hypocritical with all the teachings. There were Ted Haggard types in this community too, say one thing and do another.

This experience along with other experiences has convinced me that all organized religion is crap.
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:42 PM   #79
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Originally posted by trevster2k
I went to a Pentecostal school in Newfoundland even though I am not Pentecostal and was exposed to much of this crap as a kid. Being shown abortion videos as a 10 year old, back masking of music, and so on. As far as I was concerned, it was a cult with all the church people thinking they were the shit while everyone else was missing something. They had events where people burned records, asked people to get saved at school assemblies, one pastor told us Jesus was coming back "this" year back in 1983, it was nuts. They had similar things to Jesus camp like a youth group called Crusaders. And then you realize that their true behaviour was hypocritical with all the teachings. There were Ted Haggard types in this community too, say one thing and do another.

This experience along with other experiences has convinced me that all organized religion is crap.
No it's the people who teach it that are crap.
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:46 PM   #80
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No one is forcing these kids to live there.
Think really hard about what you are saying here. How much choice did you have as a kid?
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:49 PM   #81
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If a kid does not want to do something because they don't like it, sometimes they won't have to go through with it.
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:54 PM   #82
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Originally posted by Justin24
If a kid does not want to do something because they don't like it, sometimes they won't have to go through with it.
So your parents never made you brush your teeth when you didn't want to? Go to church when you didn't want to? You did only what you felt like when you were a kid?

Wow.
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Old 02-26-2007, 04:57 PM   #83
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So your parents never made you brush your teeth when you didn't want to? Go to church when you didn't want to? You did only what you felt like when you were a kid?

Wow.
No. I listened to them. But remember were all free thinkers.
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:00 PM   #84
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Originally posted by Justin24
Bought the movie and found it scary but interesting how adults influence their children. I don't see it as child abuse and I am sure when these kids get older they will learn things their parents did not want them to know.

"I downloaded this the other week and it made me very angry, depressed, afraid, and repulsed."---Angela Harlem

We could say that about all our politicians too. I mean aren't we the same way when an election is coming up? brainwashed by your canidate to believe he/she can do what they say?
Child abuse covers a very large, and somewhat grey area of mental and emotional abuse. Children of 11 are not really old enough to exercise free choice and firstly question what they are raised in, and secondly to challenge the ultimate authority - their parents - on it. These kids are well cared for; they are well fed, clothed, loved. They don't have anything to rebel against yet as at that age, the emotional and intellectual lies they are being told, are not questioned as they have not grown enough to wonder if there are in fact 2 sides. All this is a little moot, however, as you do not need the permission of said 11 year old to declare something terribly amiss. We as adults and outsiders can see what they cannot, due to their age and simply never being provided the opportunity or chance to question it.

Your comment about politicians, while I don't see as relevant, is interesting. It pretty much agrees with what I've said. Ideally, I'd like to think politicians do not brainwash people, but we all know they do. We have proof in one little letter - W. I got a letter just yesterday from Peter Debnam. His correspondence was full of promises of what he could do for NSW. Can't actually tell you what it was, as it was just a smear attempt on Puppet-Iemma. They'll brainwash you if you let them. It will take a lot more than bullet points on the current premier's mistakes to make me think he can do any better when he has never said a word to detail this massive plan he has for 'fixing NSW up'.
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:02 PM   #85
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Originally posted by trevster2k
I went to a Pentecostal school in Newfoundland even though I am not Pentecostal and was exposed to much of this crap as a kid. Being shown abortion videos as a 10 year old, back masking of music, and so on. As far as I was concerned, it was a cult with all the church people thinking they were the shit while everyone else was missing something. They had events where people burned records, asked people to get saved at school assemblies, one pastor told us Jesus was coming back "this" year back in 1983, it was nuts. They had similar things to Jesus camp like a youth group called Crusaders. And then you realize that their true behaviour was hypocritical with all the teachings. There were Ted Haggard types in this community too, say one thing and do another.

This experience along with other experiences has convinced me that all organized religion is crap.
Did you always disagree with the fundamentals of their beliefs?
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:18 PM   #86
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What's worse is that a lot of the kids there were much younger than 11. Many of them were in the 6-8 range, and that's completely unacceptable to me.

Like Irvine, I found these kids to be really well spoken and articulate. However, I do ascribe a lot of that to repetition of the things they've been indoctrinated with. A lot of the language used and so on is beyond the level of a 9 year old, but it sounds to me like they are just regurgitating things. Compare that with the kids of another documentary, Born Into Brothels, who are just as articulate, but come across much more childlike and genuine than these ones do.

The preacher in the movie says on her website that it's the best film ever made, so clearly she doesn't feel misrepresented by the filmmakers.

It's frightening that an 11 year old boy (Levi) would say that he doesn't like being around non-Christians because he gets a "yucky" feeling around them. That is a really sad social and personal statement and his parents and the pastor should be ashamed of themselves for instilling this sort of crap in a child.

I wonder what will happen to these kids when they venture out of their towns and states, grow into adults and come face to face with people radically different than them. Will they have the skills to properly cope and socialize, and what will become of their radicalized faith then? We don't live in a vacuum.
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:18 PM   #87
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No. I listened to them. But remember were all free thinkers.
You're missing the point.
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:21 PM   #88
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Did you always disagree with the fundamentals of their beliefs?
No, when I went to that school in Grade 5, I was a Christian I suppose, baptized United but not a church goer. Some of my classmates were Anglican and United too.

Early on, I saw nothing wrong with it but as I aged, (it was K-12 school), I took a step back and realized something was wrong. I listened to whatever music I wanted to but I did buy into their anti-abortion and some other things along the way. I was so young that I was really not aware of the big picture which is why now feel such disdain for this treatment and the Jesus Camp stuff.
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:28 PM   #89
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[q]Jesus Camp
Loki Films/Magnolia Pictures

Jesus Camp, the Oscar nominated documentary that has America talking, features Kids in Ministry International and it's founder Becky Fischer along with the most amazing children who are 100% sold out to the Lord Jesus Christ and are not ashamed to say so. As Bill O'Reilly of the O'Reilly factor said about the film, "Hollywood doesn't like seeing kids worship God." And, though secular viewers cannot relate to or understand what they see, passionate faith and worship by children is exactly what you experience in this film. And, yes, they WILL change America and the world! See what our customers who have actually seen the movie said about by going here>>

$26.98 CD

http://kidsinministry.com/OnlineReso...pTheMovie.html

[/q]
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:30 PM   #90
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[q]Comments from People Who have Actually Seen the movie Jesus Camp

I am a very strong Christian Film Critic. I screened the movie last night and I have to say that I went into the movie angry, upset and completely floored that Becky would allow such a movie to be done at her church. However I realized that I was so totally wrong and even judgmental toward her. I realized that through watching this movie, that Becky has one of the most awesome hearts for the Lord I have seen in Children's ministry. She had such an amazing group of kid's and her zeal to see them have such an incredible relationship with the Lord, was truly inspiring

You inspire me to want to be a better Christian. After the screening last night I could not sleep because I kept thinking about the Body of Christ and the youth needing to have a stronger fire in their hearts. I kept thinking about how judgmental I was toward you and how off base I was. I actually found myself repenting during the movie, for some of the things I had said about you and your camp, without seeing the movie.

John K., Seattle, WA

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Remember the little kid with glasses a long time ago [in your children's ministry] that liked to preach? Well I'm not little anymore. I'm actually a freshman in college right now attending Christ for the Nations in Dallas TX. I just wanted to say as a kid that's been through your ministry I am standing with you and supporting you in the middle of all this controversy about Jesus Camp. I believe God is going to use all the controversy for good. I actually believe that controversy a lot of times is a very good thing. Jesus was controversial, Paul was controversial, all the prophets were controversial and most people thought they were crazy. I know that God likes to use what the world considers foolish to confound the wise. I will commit to praying for you.

Tyson R., Dallas,TX
Just saw the film "Jesus Camp" yesterday. It moved us to tears.
Such a powerful film of how to train up our children in the way they should go.
Thank you!! Darryl P. (no city given)

*********************************************************************
My husband, Michael, and I saw JESUS CAMP Saturday evening and left spellbound and in tears. Your ministry is simply incredible and it is a "forerunner" for sure!! We are grandparents of four and pray that one day our grandchildren could be exposed to this type of ministry. We bless you, Becky, and pray that your boldness and enthusiasm to see our children spiritually trained and sold out for Christ will flourish and not wane. You are a gifted woman called to shake status quo in the Church, so .......... go girl in the mighty name of Jesus Christ!!!!!!! L. E., Arlington, TX

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When will the next Jesus Camp open because I WANT TO GO TO JESUS CAMP!!! I mean I'll go like half the summer if I need to. And do you do anything with the children after the age of 12? I ask because there aren't organizations that I know of that can compare to what you do with young people today, because what happens to the kids? With teens it's like the organizations say, "Go deeper with Christ!" and things, but 1) most teens might only know a few stories or may know nothing at all, and 2) no one takes that time to explain to us teenagers what they mean to get deep…We teens don't get taught how to do so many things you do like speak in tongues, hear God's ever present steady voice, heal the sick, witness to people....so many things. When will someone come along and teach me how to talk to Jesus through the Spirit? Sunshine, age 15, Savannah, GA

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My wife and I just came back from the movie, "Jesus Camp". I had no idea what kind of movie it would be. I found myself torn in mixed emotions. I am writing to tell you that even though the movie was subtle in an anti-Christian slant, it still showed you and your wonderful work. The editing was subtle and crafty in creating a mixed message. I came out of the movie not knowing whether the filmmakers were for or against Christianity, and in discussing it with my wife, concluded that it was against it. But what created the confusion is the shining work that you are doing with the kids still broke through the anti-Christian editing. I found myself amazed and marveling at the influence you are having on the kids. I know this is so because I work with many home school families and know the truth about the kids. So my prayers are with you and your ministry.
Alex D. (no city given)

**************************************************************

I just finished watching the film. I was so excited that I had to leave my house and drive to the office to E-mail you immediately. My spirit is so stirred I hope I can sleep tonight!!! You simply did an outstanding job. It made me so proud to be part of this army and this moment in the Kingdom. You spoke truth…absolute truth…with excellence, anointing and clarity. The children, Rachael and Levi were just typical of this generation of warriors. Once again, God choosing the foolish things of the world to confound the wise. When Rachael said what she did about "God not coming to dead churches", it brought me off the couch!!! I had to rewind it again and again. HALLELUJAH!!!!!! God speaking through a child. How wonderful and hilarious is that???? Just like Him, isn't it??? Once again, I'm so proud of you and the way you represented the true heart of a spiritual mother. May your children rise up to call you BLESSED.

Karen W., Alabama
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I am an Agnostic student, and I recently saw the film "Jesus Camp" with a couple of friends of mine. I spent a couple of years a little while back with some friends of mine who are evangelical Christians, though not Pentecostals, but, while we've disagreed about certain things, I've understood that their mission is ultimately good and pure and that they are good people. When I saw the film "Jesus Camp," I was reminded of them, and I wish to state that, while I am not myself a Christian, I do see the difference between what you do and what radical, violent religious extremists do. Though I may not agree with what you do, what you do is not something hateful or harmful to America or to the world.

I saw the film with a friend of mine and her girlfriend, and I was disgusted by the hateful things my friend's girlfriend said after the movie. She wished illnesses upon people in the movie and said that she wanted the kids in the movie to die. It really disturbed me, and it occurs to me that others may be wishing similar things upon you and your ministry. I know that these people will not dissuade you from what you are attempting to accomplish, and I am glad for that. Hate should never win out. I only hope that more people will learn that, and I wish that people would not see this movie as something to divide us as citizens of America, but to unite us in working towards a peaceful culture. There is a lot of filth in our society, and you are absolutely right to fight against it. I may not agree with you on every part of what that filth is, but I think we can agree that violence, gratuitous sex and bigotry are things that we can stand against as caring individuals. I just hope that you are not too disheartened by the hateful things some people may say to you as a result of a shortsighted, narrow-minded viewing of what you do. I wish you all the best.

Michael H., Des Moines, IA
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I used to live in Bismarck, ND. During my time there I was able to meet, and spend time with, Becky Fischer. Becky was a children's pastor who became tired of seeing bored kids sitting in kids church. She said, "There must be more to a vibrant Christian life for kids than sitting and hearing another story and watching another puppet show." At the same time, know this, that Becky is not anti-visuals, anti-puppets, etc. She sees them as tools to communicate the truth, but simply wants to see a deeper experience with a living God. I don't believe that she's presenting anything that's different than what we see happen at most kids camps. Fact is, I believe that the same charismatic emphasis is matched by many of our national Pentecostal children's ministry leaders.

I trust Becky's heart and perspective. Will her Holy Spirit emphasis come across positively in a secular market when constructed and edited by a secular movie business? ...ooooooooooo....well, we will find out soon, won't we?

Pastor Randy C.
************************************************************
Jesus Camp was incredible. We could not sit there quietly and watch it. It was so powerful that one of the ladies that was with me even commented that we really needed to pray for your protection. I truly believe the showing last night was just for me and my friends. We were so encouraged and I cried throughout the film as well as this morning as I was trying to get ready for work. There is a host of churches here that are biting at the bit to see that film.

Sylvia C., San Antonio, TX
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We took our gang of 20 to see the movie on Friday night. I loved it. We brought our kids to your camp over the summer in MO. I can see why you got so much against you. You took a huge risk to make this public. I admire you for that, I see your passion and I love your stance with your life and the kids. I will be praying for you. I am totally amazed how people hate Bush, everytime there was something about him the people totally laughed and reacted. Anyway, keep up the faith, we are praying for you and are looking forward in the next camp. I can tell you after this your camps will all be full and you are probable going to have to get a bigger building for the next one. All 16 of our kids want to come. We went to a restaurant after the movie and the kids talked about it the whole time. They too are on fire...

Kim, Azusa, CA
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I went to see the movie Jesus Camp with my 8 and 11 year old. I met Becky Fischer at the Azusa Street Centennial in L.A. and I was so very excited about the vision God has given her for children. I totally agree with her that children need to play a more important role in every aspect of the church, both inside and out. That is why I wanted my children to see the movie with me. I think that the movie accomplished even more than the filmmakers wanted. First of all, the fact that mainstream filmmakers were willing to depict a side of Christianity, so rarely seen, says that God is doing a great work in this country. Secondly, this film opens the eyes of so many people of how important our children are, not only to us, but to GOD, almighty. Yes, the tone of the film seemed a little slanted toward the "majority" opinion, but nevertheless GOD will be magnified. Because it was a documentary it wasn't "entertaining", but my children learned a lot and understood the concepts. I agree with Becky. Go see the movie before you make a judgment.

C.J. Brooklyn, New York
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