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I'm Ready

War Child
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Impeachment Tour

CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- The angry mother of a fallen U.S. soldier staged a protest near President Bush's ranch Saturday, demanding an accounting from Bush of how he has conducted the war in Iraq.

Supported by more than 50 demonstrators who chanted, ''W. killed her son!'' Cindy Sheehan told reporters: ''I want to ask the president, 'Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?''' Sheehan, 48, didn't get to see Bush, but did talk about 45 minutes with national security adviser Steve Hadley and deputy White House chief of staff Joe Hagin, who went out to hear her concerns.

Appreciative of their attention, yet undaunted, Sheehan said she planned to continue her roadside vigil, except for a few breaks, until she gets to talk to Bush. Her son, Casey, 24, was killed in Sadr City, Iraq, on April 4, 2004. He was an Army specialist, a Humvee mechanic.

''They (the advisers) said we are in Iraq because they believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, that the world's a better place with Saddam gone and that we're making the world a safer place with what we're doing over there,'' Sheehan said in a telephone interview after the meeting.

''They were very respectful. They were nice men. I told them Iraq was not a threat to the United States and that now people are dead for nothing. I told them I wouldn't leave until I talked to George Bush.''

She said Hagin told her, ''I want to assure you that he (Bush) really does care.''

''And I said if he does care, why doesn't he come out and talk to me.''

Sheehan arrived in Crawford aboard a bus painted red, white and blue and emblazoned with the words, ''Impeachment Tour.'' Sheehan, from Vacaville, Calif., had been attending a Veterans for Peace convention in Dallas.

The bus, trailed by about 20 cars of protesters and reporters, drove at about 15 mph toward Bush's ranch. After several miles, they parked the vehicles and began to march, in stifling heat, farther down the narrow country road.

Flanked by miles of pasture, Sheehan spoke with reporters while clutching two photographs, one of her son in uniform, and the other, a baby picture, when he was seven months old.

She said she decided to come to Crawford a few days ago after Bush said that fallen U.S. troops had died for a noble cause and that the mission must be completed.

''I want to ask the president, `Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?'' she said, her voice cracking with emotion. ''Last week, you said my son died for a noble cause' and I want to ask him what that noble cause is?''

White House spokesman Trent Duffy said response that Bush also wants the troops to return home safely.

''Many of the hundreds of families the president has met with know their loved one died for a noble cause and that the best way to honor their sacrifice is to complete the mission,'' Duffy said.

''It is a message the president has heard time and again from those he has met with and comforted. Like all Americans, he wants the troops home as soon as possible.''

The group marched about a half-mile before local law enforcement officials stopped them at a bend in the road, still four to five miles from the ranch's entrance. Capt. Kenneth Vanek of the McLennan County Sheriff's Office said the group was stopped because some marchers ignored instructions to walk in the ditch beside the road, not on the road.

''If they won't cooperate, we won't,'' Vanek said.



"Noble" something the draft dodging Dubya knows nothing about....

A president was impeached for lying about a blow job,so when do the impeachment hearings start for Dubya,the current "pathelogical liar",on vacation now,but soon to be back in the Oval office.




good for her:dancing: :dancing:
 
Re: Impeachment Tour

I'm Ready said:
CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- The angry mother of a fallen U.S. soldier staged a protest near President Bush's ranch Saturday, demanding an accounting from Bush of how he has conducted the war in Iraq.

Supported by more than 50 demonstrators who chanted, ''W. killed her son!'' Cindy Sheehan told reporters: ''I want to ask the president, 'Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?''' Sheehan, 48, didn't get to see Bush, but did talk about 45 minutes with national security adviser Steve Hadley and deputy White House chief of staff Joe Hagin, who went out to hear her concerns.

Appreciative of their attention, yet undaunted, Sheehan said she planned to continue her roadside vigil, except for a few breaks, until she gets to talk to Bush. Her son, Casey, 24, was killed in Sadr City, Iraq, on April 4, 2004. He was an Army specialist, a Humvee mechanic.

''They (the advisers) said we are in Iraq because they believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, that the world's a better place with Saddam gone and that we're making the world a safer place with what we're doing over there,'' Sheehan said in a telephone interview after the meeting.

''They were very respectful. They were nice men. I told them Iraq was not a threat to the United States and that now people are dead for nothing. I told them I wouldn't leave until I talked to George Bush.''

She said Hagin told her, ''I want to assure you that he (Bush) really does care.''

''And I said if he does care, why doesn't he come out and talk to me.''

Sheehan arrived in Crawford aboard a bus painted red, white and blue and emblazoned with the words, ''Impeachment Tour.'' Sheehan, from Vacaville, Calif., had been attending a Veterans for Peace convention in Dallas.

The bus, trailed by about 20 cars of protesters and reporters, drove at about 15 mph toward Bush's ranch. After several miles, they parked the vehicles and began to march, in stifling heat, farther down the narrow country road.

Flanked by miles of pasture, Sheehan spoke with reporters while clutching two photographs, one of her son in uniform, and the other, a baby picture, when he was seven months old.

She said she decided to come to Crawford a few days ago after Bush said that fallen U.S. troops had died for a noble cause and that the mission must be completed.

''I want to ask the president, `Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?'' she said, her voice cracking with emotion. ''Last week, you said my son died for a noble cause' and I want to ask him what that noble cause is?''

White House spokesman Trent Duffy said response that Bush also wants the troops to return home safely.

''Many of the hundreds of families the president has met with know their loved one died for a noble cause and that the best way to honor their sacrifice is to complete the mission,'' Duffy said.

''It is a message the president has heard time and again from those he has met with and comforted. Like all Americans, he wants the troops home as soon as possible.''

The group marched about a half-mile before local law enforcement officials stopped them at a bend in the road, still four to five miles from the ranch's entrance. Capt. Kenneth Vanek of the McLennan County Sheriff's Office said the group was stopped because some marchers ignored instructions to walk in the ditch beside the road, not on the road.

''If they won't cooperate, we won't,'' Vanek said.



"Noble" something the draft dodging Dubya knows nothing about....

A president was impeached for lying about a blow job,so when do the impeachment hearings start for Dubya,the current "pathelogical liar",on vacation now,but soon to be back in the Oval office.




good for her:dancing: :dancing:

In November of 2004, the United States had a presidential election, and anyone that did not want Bush to remain as president had the perfect opportunity to send him back to Texas. But Bush was re-elected president and won with a majority of the votes, the first time that has happened since 1988. A very solid win for the President and his policies. Here are the results of that election:

George W. Bush 62,040,610 Votes

John Kerry 59,028,111 Votes

Ralph Nader 463,653 Votes

Michael Badnarik 397,265 Votes

Other 363,693 Votes


George Bush defeated John Kerry by 3,012,499 votes.
 
Sting, we're all aware of the results of the 2004 election. There's no need to post them simply because someone has posted an article which is critical of the President. The fact that Bush was re-elected doesn't mean that people don't still have legitimate objections to his policies.
 
FizzingWhizzbees said:
Sting, we're all aware of the results of the 2004 election. There's no need to post them simply because someone has posted an article which is critical of the President. The fact that Bush was re-elected doesn't mean that people don't still have legitimate objections to his policies.

If I may disagree....

The title of the thread, coupled with the fact that there is no grounds on which to call for an impeachment, lead me to the exact same place that Sting went.

The last reasonable measure of the American people's feelings about who should be president was the election held last November.

He won a majority of the votes and the electoral college.

The article, which rips my heart out at the anguish this woman must be feeling, is in my opinion a publicity stunt. Not legitimate criticism.
 
Some days, I wish we could have a parliamentary democracy and hold "no confidence" votes.

Melon
 
Dreadsox said:
He won a majority of the votes and the electoral college.

The article, which rips my heart out at the anguish this woman must be feeling, is in my opinion a publicity stunt. Not legitimate criticism.

Nobody is denying that Bush won the election, I just feel that merely posting the results of the 2004 election ignores the issues raised in the article.
 
The main issue of the article and the thread title is to imply there is a need for impeachment.

There is no need for impeachment, there was an election.
 
Impeachment is not about elections or popularity, but whether a crime was committed while in office.

Clinton was impeached with a 60%+ approval rating.

Melon
 
melon said:
Some days, I wish we could have a parliamentary democracy and hold "no confidence" votes.

Melon

In a way I agree with you.....but sometimes I think it good that it is a difficult process to remove a President.
 
melon said:
Impeachment is not about elections or popularity, but whether a crime was committed while in office.

Clinton was impeached with a 60%+ approval rating.

Melon

Correct, however, there is nothing new to my knowledge since the election that would change my mind on this position. If there were a crime, there would have been less votes for him 9 months ago.

Again, I feel the woman's pain, but the publicity stunt surrounding this is wrong.
 
Oh I agree with you. I believe that a lot of what Bush has done has been grossly unethical, but the fact is that it is plain not illegal to openly lie to the public. Period.

Likewise, FOX News was once sued for making fictitious news by news producers who were fired for not going along with it. The courts said that it was not illegal to fabricate news.

Melon
 
Dreadsox said:
Again, I feel the woman's pain, but the publicity stunt surrounding this is wrong.

Why is it more wrong than any other antiwar demonstration? If it was called the "Bush Killed Our Sons Tour" instead of the "Impeachment Tour," would you still say that?

I think it is her right as a parent to demand more credible answers for why the cause that claimed her son is "noble," and she's not gonna get them by dutifully writing her Congressman. Nor is she obligated to stoically swallow Duffy's easy platitudes and keep her mouth shut just because her son was a soldier.

That's not to say this is the way I'd go about doing it, God forbid, but your response seems inappropriately judgmental to me.
 
Yes, President Bush himself killed their sons.... :rolleyes: Nevermind the fact that those sons CHOSE to join the military knowing that that choice meant accepting orders from their Commander in Chief, whoever that could be. And what does any of that even have to do with impeachment anyway? I can never understand why these women use something as terrible and painful as the deaths of their sons to further their own political agendas.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
Yes, President Bush himself killed their sons.... :rolleyes: Nevermind the fact that those sons CHOSE to join the military knowing that that choice meant accepting orders from their Commander in Chief, whoever that could be.

If it was your son who had died, I doubt you'd be so glib about it.

I can never understand why these women use something as terrible and painful as the deaths of their sons to further their own political agendas.

I had the impression that grief and anger over her son's death was itself the driving force behind her "agenda," rather than a happy coincidence that she seized upon to bolster some pre-existing impeachment campaign. That's an awfully cynical presumption to make on your part.

And what does any of that even have to do with impeachment anyway?

Because of the case made by some in the antiwar movement that the war is itself a crime. I'm not saying I hold that view (or any of her other views), but there is nothing unique or novel about that line of argument.

At any rate, impeachment was clearly NOT the focus for Ms. Sheehan at this protest; none of the quotes attributed to her even mention it. Getting a chance to confront Bush face-to-face was her main goal.
 
yolland said:


Why is it more wrong than any other antiwar demonstration? If it was called the "Bush Killed Our Sons Tour" instead of the "Impeachment Tour," would you still say that?

........

That's not to say this is the way I'd go about doing it, God forbid, but your response seems inappropriately judgmental to me.

Ummm..Yes I would still say that.

Care to clarify why my finding this wrong is innapropriate? PM me if you like.
 
Dreadsox said:


Again, I feel the woman's pain, but the publicity stunt surrounding this is wrong.

God help you
if any of your children die young
and their death was not necessary and serve no purpose (in your opinion)
 
yolland said:
I had the impression that grief and anger over her son's death was itself the driving force behind her "agenda," rather than a happy coincidence that she seized upon to bolster some pre-existing impeachment campaign. That's an awfully cynical presumption to make on your part.

When she shows up like this:

[Q]Sheehan arrived in Crawford aboard a bus painted red, white and blue and emblazoned with the words, ''Impeachment Tour.'' Sheehan, from Vacaville, Calif., had been attending a Veterans for Peace convention in Dallas. [/Q]

I am sorry, but I no longer feel it is about getting answers about her son. Quite frankly I am quite surprised that people from the White House came out to speak with her.

Again, having lost a member of my parish, being personal friends of the family, and teacher to this soldiers' cousins, I have felt and been a part of the mourning over the loss of a loved one from the war. Interestingly enough, this family has not delt with their grief in this manner, but has started a program that collects toys, clothing, and other items for the Marines to give to the children in Iraq. A much more fitting way of honoring their loved one, and helping Marines forge positive relationships with the people of Iraq.
 
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deep said:


God help you
if any of your children die young
and their death was not necessary and serve no purpose (in your opinion)

thanks you for your kind wishes.
 
Dreadsox said:

The article, which rips my heart out at the anguish this woman must be feeling, is in my opinion a publicity stunt. Not legitimate criticism.

I truly can't believe what you just said...You disputed not only yourself "rips my heart out" and expressed your true feelings...
"publicity stunt".

Edited to say
and I will agree with you on the fact the WH officals came out to speak with her at all..
That's a shock's me too..
Geez:eyebrow:
 
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Dreadsox said:


Interestingly enough, this family has not delt with their grief in this manner, but has started a program that collects toys, clothing, and other items for the Marines to give to the children in Iraq. A much more fitting way of honoring their loved one, and helping Marines forge positive relationships with the people of Iraq.


I suspect that one day this woman may really start to deal with her grief and she will realize that none of this protest is going to make her loss any less painful.

But I don't think it's right to judge what is a more fitting way to mourn somebody. You need to give people the right (within legal boundaries) to grieve in the way they see fit, not the way you do. JMO.
 
Dreadsox said:
Care to clarify why my finding this wrong is innapropriate?

The short answer is that I don't think it's anyone else's place to decide what constitutes a morally worthy expression of her grief. I myself grimaced at some details of the protest, but I'm not the one whose son came home in a body bag.

deep does have a point. If you sincerely believe that the war is wrong and the case for it ethically unsound, you won't be able to take much comfort in the idea of your child's death as a noble sacrifice to be proud of. Granted, that still leaves open a wide range of possible reactions--but anger is virtually guaranteed to be part of it initially, and it's easy to understand how that might galvanize some parents (who were already against the war anyway) into increasingly strident resistance to it. I have personally watched this process happen, and while I'll admit its consequences sometimes made me squirm, just as often I wanted to THROTTLE the thoughtless SOBs who snidely dismissed the anger as some kind of whiny liberal self-pity, as if they were somehow less able than other parents to accept that their children were mortal. That is a complete misunderstanding both of the nature of that anger and the awful undercurrent of guilt which accompanies it.

:slant: I probably should have said unduly judgmental, not "inappropriately."

Again, having lost a member of my parish, being personal friends of the family, and teacher to this soldiers' cousins, I have felt and been a part of the mourning over the loss of a loved one from the war. Interestingly enough, this family has not delt with their grief in this manner, but has started a program that collects toys, clothing, and other items for the Marines to give to the children in Iraq. A much more fitting way of honoring their loved one, and helping Marines forge positive relationships with the people of Iraq.

Wonderful--that is indeed an exemplary response, and I'm not arguing the point that some ways of coping with wartime grief yield more constructive results than others. But each person's grief inhabits a context unique to them, and needs to be understood in that light first. We shouldn't be evaluating its worthiness or sincerity based on how socially useful their means of coping with it is.

"It is very hard for a free fish to understand what is happening to a hooked one" ~ Karl Menninger

Peace
 
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yolland said:
If it was your son who had died, I doubt you'd be so glib about it.

Sorry, LivLuv--my tone there was uncalled for. My apologies.
 
sue4u2 said:


I truly can't believe what you just said...You disputed not only yourself "rips my heart out" and expressed your true feelings...
"publicity stunt".


Sue,

I do n ot understand why you do not believe me, but that is what makes people different.

It would break my heart...I do not think driving around in a bus that says "Impeachment" does her kid justice.

I did not make the statement lightly. I did not make it to sound insulting. I do not thinki it would be helpful towards helping me heal.

Peace
 
anitram said:



I suspect that one day this woman may really start to deal with her grief and she will realize that none of this protest is going to make her loss any less painful.


In my opinion this it what really makes my heart bleed more. She is almost putting salt on the wound in the manner in which she is doing it. I cannot put myself into that place where I would be doing this to myself. I cannot imagine putting my wife through that either.



anitram said:
But I don't think it's right to judge what is a more fitting way to mourn somebody. You need to give people the right (within legal boundaries) to grieve in the way they see fit, not the way you do. JMO.


I disagree with this, becasue clearly driving up in a bus with the word "impeachment" plastered on the side, is a publicity stunt in my mind.
 
yolland said:

:slant: I probably should have said unduly judgmental, not "inappropriately."

Wonderful--that is indeed an exemplary response, and I'm not arguing the point that some ways of coping with wartime grief yield more constructive results than others. But each person's grief inhabits a context unique to them, and needs to be understood in that light first. We shouldn't be evaluating its worthiness or sincerity based on how socially useful their means of coping with it is.

"It is very hard for a free fish to understand what is happening to a hooked one" ~ Karl Menninger

Peace

Thank you for responding politely.

I appreciate your position. You are correct I am not in this woman's shoes. However, I can still hold the opinion that the bus showing up with the words "impeachement" is nothing short of a stunt.

The article fails to mention that she has met the President. It fails to mention that she was one of fifteen people that were invited to meet the President and that the President did indeed face her about her child's death.

She may not have received the answers she wanted. She may not have liked the answers she got. She may not have even asked him what she wanted to. Point is though, this article would lead one to believe the President is hiding from her.

Now in reading this article, you would never get that impression.

In my opinion, and if it is judgemental or sounds judgemental I cannot help it, it reinforces my belief that she is not in search of answers, but is using her child's death as a publicity stunt.

[Q]Protest mom met Bush in '04

August 8, 2005

BY DEB RIECHMANN
ZIP code where you park at night.
CRAWFORD, Texas -- A mother of a fallen U.S. soldier who has pledged to hold a roadside peace protest near President Bush's ranch until he talks to her said Sunday she met with the president shortly after her son died.

Cindy Sheehan, 48, of Vacaville, Calif., said she was among relatives of soldiers killed in Iraq who were invited to meet with Bush in June 2004 near Seattle.

She said her meeting with Bush occurred two months after son Casey was killed in Sadr City on April 4, 2004. Since then, she said, reports have disputed claims that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction -- a main justification for the war.

''I was still in shock then,'' Sheehan said. "Now, I'm angry. I want the troops home.

Sheehan said she plans to continue her vigil until she gets to talk to Bush. ''I'll follow him to D.C.,'' she said.

AP
[/Q]
 
Yes, Bush was re-elected but as someone who voted against him twice I feel that it's necessary to point out the particular disagreements people have with his administration. The vote was 51% to 49%, the closest re-election of an incumbent in almost a century (since 1916).
 
anitram said:


But I don't think it's right to judge what is a more fitting way to mourn somebody. You need to give people the right (within legal boundaries) to grieve in the way they see fit, not the way you do. JMO.

I agree, I don't feel it is my place to pass judgment on her or amyone else who has lost someone over there. Everyone deals w/ such a loss in a different way.

My heart goes out to her. I posted a letter she wrote to Bush last year ages ago in the war forum, I won't post it again but if anyone wishes to read it it's there somewhere
 
I thought it was interesting that this story made the Drudge Report today...

PROTESTING SOLDIER MOM CHANGED STORY ON BUSH
Mon Aug 08 2005 10:11:07 ET

The mother of a fallen U.S. soldier who is holding a roadside peace vigil near President Bush's ranch -- has dramatically changed her account about what happened when she met the commander-in-chief last summer!

Cindy Sheehan, 48, of Vacaville, Calif., who last year praised Bush for bringing her family the "gift of happiness," took to the nation's TV outlets this weekend to declare how Bush "killed an indispensable part of our family and humanity."

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4.htm
 
I think its interesting that she appeared on Radio Islam last month in Chicago.

http://www.radioislam.com/radioislam/

[Q]Saturday, July 2 2005:
Host:Maurice Weaver
Topic: The War on Terror Through the Eyes of Those Who Lost Loved Ones
Guests: Cindy Sheehan, co-founder of Goldstar Families for Peace
Colleen Kelly, co-director of September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows -listen [/Q]


Flame away.

On a positive note....Radio Islam did some nice stuff on the Live 8.
 
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