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Old 08-11-2005, 08:45 PM   #61
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The election gave Mr. Bush the opportunity to lead. It did not make him a leader.

FACT is when Mr. Bush goes out, it is choreographed that he is surrounded by his supporters to the point where in many venues people who hold opposition views are denied access. I don't have much respect for someone who does not desire (or is not trusted) to face his opposition.

FACT is Mr. Bush is leading his supporters. It is pure speculation that he is leading the country.

I haven't lost the right to opposition because he won the election. I haven't seen much leadership. I don't think he is stupid. I don't think he is evil. I think he is ineffective.

If that is Bush bashing, so be it.

And yes, Sting, I know he won the election.

I didn't see a whole lot of restraint in Clinton bashing. And even though I voted for Clinton, I thought a lot of it was well deserved.
And funny.

You guys are much too sensitive. Mr. Bush is not a sacred cow to me. And he is not a sacred cow to almost half the electorate.
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Old 08-11-2005, 08:51 PM   #62
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Bono's Saint, don't you realise that any criticism of Bush is, in and of itself, mindless 'Bush bashing'?

It is not a legal requirement to support the President (yet), but if you can't say anything nice, the least you could do is stay silent!

Why bring up non relevant facts if the White House has already determined the correct facts of each and every situation?

Why do you hate freedom?
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Old 08-11-2005, 08:53 PM   #63
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Thank you. I enjoy your posts to no end.
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Old 08-11-2005, 08:54 PM   #64
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well someone has to.....
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Old 08-11-2005, 09:56 PM   #65
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Let's be honest, Bush IS president, now I know he takes a lot of vacations, but he really doesn't have time to meet with one family.

Now if she were able to congregate a large group of families that would be different. If she could do that, then I would probably question why Bush isn't meeting with the families of those that gave their lives.

But honestly all she would do is receive the same rhetoric we've all been fed, it's seriously a waste of time.

She should really spend her time(after her grieving) trying to see how many other families are out there who feel like her and create a coalition...
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Old 08-12-2005, 01:11 AM   #66
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
Too bad there is a 48 hour old thread on this already.....

Maybe a mod can merge it....
'Tis done.
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Old 08-12-2005, 01:39 AM   #67
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I do hope everyone who has advice on what this woman should do about her grieving contacts her somehow to point her on the right track!
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Old 08-12-2005, 04:17 AM   #68
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No meeting in the middle
By Boston Herald editorial staff
Friday, August 12, 2005

Cindy Sheehan has achieved what she set out to achieve when she dragged her sleeping bag to President Bush's Texas ranch this summer: drawing national media attention to her crusade against the Iraq war, which claimed the life of her 24-year-old son, Casey.

And let's be honest, isn't that what Sheehan's well-publicized campout is really all about?

More than a meeting with the president, which she is demanding, Sheehan went to Crawford in search of a broad platform from which to protest the administration's policy in Iraq. She found it.




She arrived on a bus emblazoned with the words, ``Impeachment Tour.''

She was escorted by a Greek chorus of 50 protesters chanting ``W Killed Her Son.''

Her story has appeared in all of the major newspapers and on the television networks.

But Sheehan says she won't leave Crawford until Bush meets with her again. Their first meeting came last year, when the president visited a group of families whose loved ones died in the war.

It must be tempting for Bush's staff to have him stroll down the dirt path to meet with this grieving mother.

But really – will the president be able to offer Cindy Sheehan any words that would ease her troubled mind?

He has already tried. After their first meeting, Sheehan told the Vacaville (Calif.) Reporter, that she knew Bush was sorry, that he is a man of faith who felt some of her family's pain and is sincere in wanting freedom for the Iraqis.

Today, she has changed her mind – and her story.


It's not surprising her anger over the war that claimed her son's life has deepened. But in a truly incredible revision of history, Sheehan now accuses the president of approaching their meeting last year ``like it was a party.''

Rather than offering her comfort, Sheehan says it made her more angry. In other words, it was a bust.

It's doubtful she would approach a second meeting with the commander in chief, a man she so obviously hates, in any other way.
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Old 08-12-2005, 08:52 PM   #69
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Wow. The Boston Herald, in supposedly liberal Mass.

Clearly, Bush is privately panicking, and has called Karl Rove away from his Roberts-appointment duties for this dangerous , life-threatening situation. Oh, one woman's protest is sooooo dangerous, that she must be isolated, publicly shamed, even by her own family (isn't it amzing that every single member of her family, right down to the grandma and grandpa, suddenly think she is "politically motivated'? Listen, do you think she decided to go off and do this without telling anybody in her family? Don't you think that part of her courage might have come from a couple of them supporting her in the first place?) and then be made to disappear.

It's amazing how few people actually have the courage to put fear aside and stand up for their convictions, with regards to this guy. How much did they pay her relatives to publicly disown her.

It's amazing that whenever someone asks serious questions about a Bush action or policy,, the extremely few who have, nothing else seems to matter in the news the next week or two, until they are disgraced and made to disappear, after being made to apologize. Proecting Bush's image, rather than dealing with the life and death issues she is raising, is always Urgent Concern Number One.

All I can say is, right now, Mr Bush, it's one mother, and it's so easy to tar and feather one mother. But you're afraid. Afraid of the hundreds and thousands of other mothers out there, to whom she may be giving inspiration. Afraid of the people, you and me, who now know the truth about this sordid little colonial venture you got us into. Yes, he may never know it, but his repsonse fits a well-established pattern, a pattern of so-called "leaders" who know they have done dubious things but care not because they have their own selfish interests at heart, whatever else they may say to the gullible public. It's the response of someone who's secretly afriad, and is going to war with we the people, to protect himself from the threat of some ne who finally is not afriad. If I were less chariable about Bush, like I should be, I'd say that this is the univeral pattern of response dictators begin with, the public shaming, even though , this being America, it won't go further than that.

So good, turn the screws, make the threats, use your friends who control the international corporations who own these newspapers and TV stations to coerce her and her nearest and dearest to lie to save their reputations (and perhaps their lives.) It's such a tied and predictable pattern and we've seen it before from others. And when she is silenced, go about your life, laugh, and make your schemes. Someday, you may even crack a joke about her, and we will laugh along, like the sheep we are, forgetting our anger. All will be normal again, and we will forget that she was trying to awaken us from our drugged stupor. Oh, thank you, our glorious Leader, for knowing what was best for us, and saving us from the tyranny of Thought. But silence cannot remain forever so, not when the dead are calling out for justice. The terrorists will have to answer for their crimes, and so will you, from the same God.

My bets are a week from now, this woman will suddenly have a history of mental problems, be emotionally fragile, have a checkered and dubious past of some sort. Other mothers of lost sons wil "come out" by the dozens to tell her to shut the f*ck up and deal. Or they will sakes their heads and speak sadly aobut her asif she is mental patient who needs help. Next, once she is out of the picture, she can't have acted alone. She must have been sponsored by prominent Democratic groups, like Moveon.org, etc, and thes'll be anice way to smear them at a much-needed time when the Supreme Court fight is going on. Oh, it's so predictable...and The people who could so benefit from her example and take up here she left off will instead, no doubt, be privately approached and handsomely paid by Rove's hench men to vilify her, Rove perhaps thinking this is the only way to shut her up.

But in the end, Mr Bush, it will do you no good. Because 5 years from now, ten years from now, people will not have forgotten her, and when they finally know the truth, they will be inspired by her example. Someday, "Meester Bush", that one mother will become a hundred, and then a thousand, and then ten thousand. And though you'll long gone out office, those ten thousand mothers will be the mothers of the nation, and the nation itself. They'll be the ones who pass the ultimate sentence, in the area where it counts: your legacy. Do you know what this is called, MR Bush? A little thing called Democracy. A term you're not very familiar with, I suspect. You've done your best to kill it, media-wise, but it is a resilent thing, and the calls for justice by the righteous will not go unheeded. For you will untimately have to answer on the Day of Judgement, , not only for the thousands of American dead and scarred for life, but the nameless and faceless Iraqi dead as well.How will you lie to Him, Mr Bush? How will you be able to look Him in the eyes? We can't speak for God, of course, but if I were Him, I wouldn't take kindly to people who openly claim to act in My Name when espousing murder, when we are supposed to be the righteous and they the savages. There are differnet ways to be savage, indeed.


"Mock on, mock on, Voltaire, Rosseau. Mock on, mock on, 'tis all in vain. You throw the sand against the wind, and the wind blows it back again."
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Old 08-12-2005, 09:19 PM   #70
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Right so evil Chimpy McHitlerburton and Dark Lord KKKarl Rove are plotting to silence her dissent by paying off or threatening family members to discredit her, using the media that they control to vilify her as a deranged woman. Incidently im stilll waiting for the Secret Service to murder all those protestors ~ we were promised blood.

Compassion is a one way street because of it is a trump card in politics ~ everybody gets so teared up and righteously angry over Iraqi's killed by US bombs or terrorist bombs (but they are the fault of the US because they wouldn't have happened without the war). But don't give a piss about them when it was Saddam doing legions more of them in day by day ~ opposite can be just as true as well. The best way to get to the high moral ground is to get the greatest victims out there and splash them all over respective outlets. This is not a lone womans protest, it is an orchestrated and calculated move with the backing of various groups with their own agendas.

I wonder how people would feel if when Bush visits the families of dead soldiers he had got the press to cover it all, splash it on the front page, show the world how compassionate he is.
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Old 08-12-2005, 09:29 PM   #71
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See silencing dissent can be easy if you just do it right, like when the Russians just took a relative angry over the Kursk disaster and injected her with sedatives to get her quiet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/894597.stm

Come on, this crypto-fascist leader Bu$h is a total bufoon when it comes to handling the rabble. At least he could send everybody who is associated with MoveOn.org or reads lefty blogs for psychological assesments; that would get rid of a few of them. Purge the vast media empire of those with sympathies outside him and his close personal circle.

Oh yeah and Iraq - I guess that the glamour of freedom is overrated, just pay off some stooge make them dictator for life, this whole representative democracy thing is a waste of time and money and it's obviously just making people hate America more. If you withdraw all US troops and pay off the regime with a few billion of "reparations" then surely it will help your interests. Oh and get back into Khazakstan ~ that oh so fake setup to make it look like Karimov is kicking you out for your actions against the regimes human rights abuses isn't fooling anybody, the world knows that it is a sham to make people think you care ~ you just have to look through the looking glass a few times over.
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Old 08-12-2005, 09:31 PM   #72
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PS. Deadsox. Regarding the breastfeeding thread....our being political opposites hasn't changed my opinion of you BTW! Can we agree to disagree? Just remember, James Carville and Mary Matalin...

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Old 08-12-2005, 09:38 PM   #73
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Regarding silencing....I'm talking about smear cmpaigns. There's nothing on this eart hI hate more, and in politics it's a fact of life, but some are more slimy than others. Sometimes, a bullet or an injection is lot more honest, you know? The smear campaign's aftereffects are far more toxic, harder to shake off, and can scar for life. Some people deserve to be the victims of them. Some do not.

I'm not comparing anything Bush does with other REAL wackos, in repressive regaimes. I am merely judging him by American criteria, which is perfectly valid and relavant, since we like to hold ourselves up as the world's moral arbiters. And judging him agsinst other Americans....Well, that claim is not so easily made anymore, is it? IS that why one of the UN "reforms" the abolishment od the UN High Comittee for Human Rights, which is officially being carried next month?

I was thinking, above, of the comforting and benign official language the Young Turks were giving to Western media in Istanbul in 1915 as they were secretly carrying out the genocide of the Armenian people. The pattern of isolation of dissenters and challengers to the official party line was the same. Only, this being am actual dictatorship, things went a bit further than Micheal Corleone's "Who's being nieve, Kay?" Ordinary Turks in the street who protested the death marches and tried to hide Armenian friends were hanged in the doorways of their own homes. My grandpa, as a boy of 7, saw this many times, on the road,and he told me as if it had happened yesterday. When he grew up and later read the West's 'verdict on the Genocide (The Armenains must have borught this on themselves..they were planning to invade Turkey with Russia and turn it Communist! )My family has seen oppression up close and personal. They've been shot, evicted from their homes, their village destroyed, gone on the forced death marches. Some starved to death, others died of exposure. It isn't just legend at this point, either, no matter how long ago it happened. It's real as if 90 yrs were yesterday. We Armenians have not been able to put it behind us, like many Jews have the Holocaust, becuase of the continued Turkish denial. Anytime a so-called "leader" retreats into using this double-speak and goes on this pattern of behavior, covering thier ass, I call it "talking Turkish." We've seen it before.
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Old 08-12-2005, 09:41 PM   #74
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Not the UN High Comittee for Human Rights! where will the US get it's dose of flagellation over being the worlds worst human rights abuser from the luminaries in human rights like Libya, Sudan or Zimbabwe.
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Old 08-12-2005, 09:45 PM   #75
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
See silencing dissent can be easy if you just do it right, like when the Russians just took a relative angry over the Kursk disaster and injected her with sedatives to get her quiet.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/894597.stm

Come on, this crypto-fascist leader Bu$h is a total bufoon when it comes to handling the rabble. At least he could send everybody who is associated with MoveOn.org or reads lefty blogs for psychological assesments; that would get rid of a few of them. Purge the vast media empire of those with sympathies outside him and his close personal circle.

Oh yeah and Iraq - I guess that the glamour of freedom is overrated, just pay off some stooge make them dictator for life, this whole representative democracy thing is a waste of time and money and it's obviously just making people hate America more. If you withdraw all US troops and pay off the regime with a few billion of "reparations" then surely it will help your interests. Oh and get back into Khazakstan ~ that oh so fake setup to make it look like Karimov is kicking you out for your actions against the regimes human rights abuses isn't fooling anybody, the world knows that it is a sham to make people think you care ~ you just have to look through the looking glass a few times over.

Here is my considered, intellectual response to the above rant, er sorry, I mean to the above considered intellectual post:-

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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