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Old 08-07-2005, 07:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Again, I feel the woman's pain, but the publicity stunt surrounding this is wrong.
God help you
if any of your children die young
and their death was not necessary and serve no purpose (in your opinion)
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Old 08-07-2005, 07:59 PM   #17
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Originally posted by yolland
I had the impression that grief and anger over her son's death was itself the driving force behind her "agenda," rather than a happy coincidence that she seized upon to bolster some pre-existing impeachment campaign. That's an awfully cynical presumption to make on your part.
When she shows up like this:

[Q]Sheehan arrived in Crawford aboard a bus painted red, white and blue and emblazoned with the words, ''Impeachment Tour.'' Sheehan, from Vacaville, Calif., had been attending a Veterans for Peace convention in Dallas. [/Q]

I am sorry, but I no longer feel it is about getting answers about her son. Quite frankly I am quite surprised that people from the White House came out to speak with her.

Again, having lost a member of my parish, being personal friends of the family, and teacher to this soldiers' cousins, I have felt and been a part of the mourning over the loss of a loved one from the war. Interestingly enough, this family has not delt with their grief in this manner, but has started a program that collects toys, clothing, and other items for the Marines to give to the children in Iraq. A much more fitting way of honoring their loved one, and helping Marines forge positive relationships with the people of Iraq.
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Old 08-07-2005, 08:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


God help you
if any of your children die young
and their death was not necessary and serve no purpose (in your opinion)
thanks you for your kind wishes.
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Old 08-07-2005, 09:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

The article, which rips my heart out at the anguish this woman must be feeling, is in my opinion a publicity stunt. Not legitimate criticism.
I truly can't believe what you just said...You disputed not only yourself "rips my heart out" and expressed your true feelings...
"publicity stunt".

Edited to say
and I will agree with you on the fact the WH officals came out to speak with her at all..
That's a shock's me too..
Geez
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Old 08-07-2005, 10:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


Interestingly enough, this family has not delt with their grief in this manner, but has started a program that collects toys, clothing, and other items for the Marines to give to the children in Iraq. A much more fitting way of honoring their loved one, and helping Marines forge positive relationships with the people of Iraq.

I suspect that one day this woman may really start to deal with her grief and she will realize that none of this protest is going to make her loss any less painful.

But I don't think it's right to judge what is a more fitting way to mourn somebody. You need to give people the right (within legal boundaries) to grieve in the way they see fit, not the way you do. JMO.
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Old 08-07-2005, 11:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Care to clarify why my finding this wrong is innapropriate?
The short answer is that I don't think it's anyone else's place to decide what constitutes a morally worthy expression of her grief. I myself grimaced at some details of the protest, but I'm not the one whose son came home in a body bag.

deep does have a point. If you sincerely believe that the war is wrong and the case for it ethically unsound, you won't be able to take much comfort in the idea of your child's death as a noble sacrifice to be proud of. Granted, that still leaves open a wide range of possible reactions--but anger is virtually guaranteed to be part of it initially, and it's easy to understand how that might galvanize some parents (who were already against the war anyway) into increasingly strident resistance to it. I have personally watched this process happen, and while I'll admit its consequences sometimes made me squirm, just as often I wanted to THROTTLE the thoughtless SOBs who snidely dismissed the anger as some kind of whiny liberal self-pity, as if they were somehow less able than other parents to accept that their children were mortal. That is a complete misunderstanding both of the nature of that anger and the awful undercurrent of guilt which accompanies it.

I probably should have said unduly judgmental, not "inappropriately."

Quote:
Again, having lost a member of my parish, being personal friends of the family, and teacher to this soldiers' cousins, I have felt and been a part of the mourning over the loss of a loved one from the war. Interestingly enough, this family has not delt with their grief in this manner, but has started a program that collects toys, clothing, and other items for the Marines to give to the children in Iraq. A much more fitting way of honoring their loved one, and helping Marines forge positive relationships with the people of Iraq.
Wonderful--that is indeed an exemplary response, and I'm not arguing the point that some ways of coping with wartime grief yield more constructive results than others. But each person's grief inhabits a context unique to them, and needs to be understood in that light first. We shouldn't be evaluating its worthiness or sincerity based on how socially useful their means of coping with it is.

"It is very hard for a free fish to understand what is happening to a hooked one" ~ Karl Menninger

Peace
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Old 08-07-2005, 11:09 PM   #22
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Originally posted by yolland
If it was your son who had died, I doubt you'd be so glib about it.
Sorry, LivLuv--my tone there was uncalled for. My apologies.
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Old 08-08-2005, 04:10 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by sue4u2


I truly can't believe what you just said...You disputed not only yourself "rips my heart out" and expressed your true feelings...
"publicity stunt".

Sue,

I do n ot understand why you do not believe me, but that is what makes people different.

It would break my heart...I do not think driving around in a bus that says "Impeachment" does her kid justice.

I did not make the statement lightly. I did not make it to sound insulting. I do not thinki it would be helpful towards helping me heal.

Peace
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Old 08-08-2005, 04:15 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram



I suspect that one day this woman may really start to deal with her grief and she will realize that none of this protest is going to make her loss any less painful.

In my opinion this it what really makes my heart bleed more. She is almost putting salt on the wound in the manner in which she is doing it. I cannot put myself into that place where I would be doing this to myself. I cannot imagine putting my wife through that either.



Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
But I don't think it's right to judge what is a more fitting way to mourn somebody. You need to give people the right (within legal boundaries) to grieve in the way they see fit, not the way you do. JMO.

I disagree with this, becasue clearly driving up in a bus with the word "impeachment" plastered on the side, is a publicity stunt in my mind.
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Old 08-08-2005, 04:26 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

I probably should have said unduly judgmental, not "inappropriately."

Wonderful--that is indeed an exemplary response, and I'm not arguing the point that some ways of coping with wartime grief yield more constructive results than others. But each person's grief inhabits a context unique to them, and needs to be understood in that light first. We shouldn't be evaluating its worthiness or sincerity based on how socially useful their means of coping with it is.

"It is very hard for a free fish to understand what is happening to a hooked one" ~ Karl Menninger

Peace
Thank you for responding politely.

I appreciate your position. You are correct I am not in this woman's shoes. However, I can still hold the opinion that the bus showing up with the words "impeachement" is nothing short of a stunt.

The article fails to mention that she has met the President. It fails to mention that she was one of fifteen people that were invited to meet the President and that the President did indeed face her about her child's death.

She may not have received the answers she wanted. She may not have liked the answers she got. She may not have even asked him what she wanted to. Point is though, this article would lead one to believe the President is hiding from her.

Now in reading this article, you would never get that impression.

In my opinion, and if it is judgemental or sounds judgemental I cannot help it, it reinforces my belief that she is not in search of answers, but is using her child's death as a publicity stunt.

[Q]Protest mom met Bush in '04

August 8, 2005

BY DEB RIECHMANN
ZIP code where you park at night.
CRAWFORD, Texas -- A mother of a fallen U.S. soldier who has pledged to hold a roadside peace protest near President Bush's ranch until he talks to her said Sunday she met with the president shortly after her son died.

Cindy Sheehan, 48, of Vacaville, Calif., said she was among relatives of soldiers killed in Iraq who were invited to meet with Bush in June 2004 near Seattle.

She said her meeting with Bush occurred two months after son Casey was killed in Sadr City on April 4, 2004. Since then, she said, reports have disputed claims that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction -- a main justification for the war.

''I was still in shock then,'' Sheehan said. "Now, I'm angry. I want the troops home.

Sheehan said she plans to continue her vigil until she gets to talk to Bush. ''I'll follow him to D.C.,'' she said.

AP
[/Q]
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Old 08-08-2005, 07:36 AM   #26
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Yes, Bush was re-elected but as someone who voted against him twice I feel that it's necessary to point out the particular disagreements people have with his administration. The vote was 51% to 49%, the closest re-election of an incumbent in almost a century (since 1916).
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Old 08-08-2005, 09:04 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


But I don't think it's right to judge what is a more fitting way to mourn somebody. You need to give people the right (within legal boundaries) to grieve in the way they see fit, not the way you do. JMO.
I agree, I don't feel it is my place to pass judgment on her or amyone else who has lost someone over there. Everyone deals w/ such a loss in a different way.

My heart goes out to her. I posted a letter she wrote to Bush last year ages ago in the war forum, I won't post it again but if anyone wishes to read it it's there somewhere
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Old 08-08-2005, 10:04 AM   #28
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I thought it was interesting that this story made the Drudge Report today...

PROTESTING SOLDIER MOM CHANGED STORY ON BUSH
Mon Aug 08 2005 10:11:07 ET

The mother of a fallen U.S. soldier who is holding a roadside peace vigil near President Bush's ranch -- has dramatically changed her account about what happened when she met the commander-in-chief last summer!

Cindy Sheehan, 48, of Vacaville, Calif., who last year praised Bush for bringing her family the "gift of happiness," took to the nation's TV outlets this weekend to declare how Bush "killed an indispensable part of our family and humanity."

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4.htm
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Old 08-08-2005, 10:09 AM   #29
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I think its interesting that she appeared on Radio Islam last month in Chicago.

http://www.radioislam.com/radioislam/

[Q]Saturday, July 2 2005:
Host:Maurice Weaver
Topic: The War on Terror Through the Eyes of Those Who Lost Loved Ones
Guests: Cindy Sheehan, co-founder of Goldstar Families for Peace
Colleen Kelly, co-director of September 11th Families for Peaceful Tomorrows -listen [/Q]


Flame away.

On a positive note....Radio Islam did some nice stuff on the Live 8.
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Old 08-08-2005, 10:17 AM   #30
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I don't really understand why that is interesting, could you explain some more, please? (Not flaming - a genuine question.)
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