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Old 10-03-2005, 08:36 PM   #241
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and now we will have a rigged constitution election and endless civil war


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Sunnis Protest Move to Ease Iraqi Charter Approval
By ROBERT F. WORTH

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 3 - Iraq's Shiite and Kurdish leaders quietly adopted new rules over the weekend that will make it virtually impossible for the constitution to fail in the upcoming national referendum, prompting Sunni Arabs and a range of independent political figures to complain that the vote was being fixed.

Some Sunni leaders who have been organizing a campaign to vote down the document said today that they might now boycott the Oct. 15 referendum, because the rule change made their efforts futile. Other political leaders also reacted angrily, saying the change would seriously damage the vote's credibility in Iraq and abroad.

Under the new rules, the constitution will fail only if two-thirds of all registered voters - rather than two-thirds of all those actually casting ballots - reject it in at least 3 of Iraq's 18 provinces.

The change, adopted during an unannounced vote in Parliament on Sunday afternoon, effectively raises the bar for those who oppose the constitution. Given that fewer than 60 percent of registered Iraqis voted in the January elections, the chances that two-thirds would both show up at the polls and vote against the document in three provinces would appear to be close to nil.

"This is a mockery of democracy, a mockery of law," said Adnan al-Janabi, a secular Sunni representative and a member of former Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's party. "Many
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Old 10-03-2005, 08:49 PM   #242
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I'm not so sure about endless civil war, but I agree that that's a bullshit "interpretation" of the ratification rules.
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Old 10-04-2005, 11:52 PM   #243
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U.N. Is Critical of Rule Change for Iraq Ballot
By ROBERT F. WORTH
and KIRK SEMPLE

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 4 - A United Nations spokesman said Tuesday that newly adopted rules for the coming Iraqi constitutional referendum appeared to violate accepted international standards, and United Nations officials pressed Kurdish and Shiite legislators to reconsider the rule change.

The new rules, which were quietly adopted Sunday by the Shiite- and Kurd-dominated National Assembly, will make it virtually impossible for the proposed constitution to fail. The changes have infuriated many Sunni political leaders, who oppose the document, and have drawn strong criticism from independent political figures as well.

The thinly veiled criticism by the United Nations was especially significant because the organization was brought in to supervise the referendum, scheduled for Oct. 15, and confer a stamp of legitimacy on it.

Hussein al-Shahristani, the acting speaker of the National Assembly, said Shiite and Kurdish leaders had been discussing the issue with United Nations officials, and hoped to reach an agreement by Wednesday.

But other lawmakers said the talks appeared to be bogged down, with the Iraqis apparently unwilling to undo the change.

Sunni Arab leaders had already said they might boycott the referendum.

Other members of the National Assembly said the rule change could seriously damage the credibility of the vote, a crucial moment in Iraq's transition to full independence. Some warned that it could actually increase the chances of a vote against the constitution.

"They made this change because they were afraid the constitution would be rejected," said Mahmoud Othman, a Kurdish member of the National Assembly who opposes the change. "But now it may be counterproductive: they made the Sunnis so furious that maybe more of them will vote no."

Under the new rules, the constitution will fail only if two-thirds of registered voters - rather than two-thirds of those actually casting ballots - reject it in at least three of the 18 provinces.

The change would in effect require almost all of those voting in three provinces to reject the document. In making the change, the Shiite and Kurdish representatives designated two different meanings for the word "voters" in a single passage of the transitional law.

That prompted accusations of an unfair double standard that violates the intent of the law. The United Nation's comments appeared to make the same point.
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Old 10-05-2005, 03:41 PM   #244
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the whole process like the so-call Afghan democracy is corrupt


anyone who believes this is about democracy

is ignorant

Quote:
After a brief debate, the Assembly voted 119 to 28 to restore the original voting rules for the referendum, which will take place October 15. Only about half of the 275-member legislative body turned up for the vote.

Washington hopes a majority "yes" vote in the referendum will unite Iraq's disparate factions and erode support for the country's bloody insurgency, paving the way to eventually begin withdrawing foreign troops.

U.S. and U.N. officials hope that restoring the original rules will avert a boycott of the referendum by the Sunni minority, would have deeply undermined the credibility of the vote.
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Old 10-05-2005, 10:03 PM   #245
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well when has anything ever been about democracy? (ever)

anyway I suppose it's good that they reverted to the original rules, but it scares me that the majority has already nearly attempted to use their numbers to legislate against the minority
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Old 10-10-2005, 03:32 AM   #246
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Quote:
"Wars are not won without sacrifice, and
this war will require more sacrifice,
more time, and more resolve. The terrorists are as brutal an enemy as we have ever faced," Bush said.

Stop him before
he sacrifices your children!
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Old 10-31-2005, 10:45 AM   #247
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe All she's doing is degrading her son's bravery and death, while making an ass of herself in the process. Yep, America hater alright. [/B]
I didn't think it could get this^^^ DUMB on a u2 message board.

Shouldn't the moderators being watching for right-wing nonsense?
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Old 10-31-2005, 12:14 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally posted by FatBratchney


I didn't think it could get this^^^ DUMB on a u2 message board.

Shouldn't the moderators being watching for right-wing nonsense?
As one of the moderators of this forum, no I shouldn't be watching for right wing nonsense. I'm not here to censor different political views (with limited exceptions - ie posting racist material isn't acceptable) - I'm here to ensure people follow the forum rules and that everyone is able to participate in discussion in FYM without being personally attacked and insulted. Whatever my own politics (and I'm sure everyone here knows how little sympathy I have with right-wing views), it is not my job to censor different opinions.

And on that note - you need to stop calling people "dumb" "stupid" "idiot" and the like. You are welcome to articulate whatever political views you choose to but you are not welcome to insult other posters. I'd advise you to read the rules of this forum and comply with them otherwise your access to FYM may be removed.

*Fizz.
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Old 10-31-2005, 01:43 PM   #249
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Its nice that you don't censor "different political views".
The mainstream media SURE DOES-24/7-it would be nice if some truly enlightened NON-neo-cons would give the neo-cons a taste of their own medicine....why NOT?--its YOUR CHOICE.

But the utter saturation of neo-con vapidness doesn't seem to phase you.


How quaint.


The question I would HAVE to ask:
What IS the difference between CNN/Fox and this message board if the tableau of neo-con gibberish is allowed to stand unmolested?

Should those who OPENLY eschew "fact based" critiques -FREE from...snivel..."name calling" (boo-FUKKIN-hoo) be given the benefit of protection via your nice little rules?

The Neo-Con Ideology is a living ,breathing doctrine of violence and greed.
Yet--I am supposed to be polite to these asswipes ?
Their words are an articulation of bottomless ignorance which become animated violence and oppression in places like Iraq and Haiti.

I wonder how your left-wing views would be dealt with in a neo-con forum?
I highly doubt that you would be afforded the same latitude...you SHOULD KNOW this by now.



I guess not.
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