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Old 08-21-2005, 10:15 AM   #136
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Yeah..I'm waiting for Monday, like everyone else. Here's hoping the document will be online by Teus....
See,s to me we are following the British legacy in Saudi Arabia...we care not who or what we support, just anything that is designed to control the populace...
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Old 08-21-2005, 10:23 AM   #137
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Since I'm technologically impaired...another great article to post, A Wanderer...

Militias Hold Sway in Iraqi North and South"

Can you print this up here for me? The Wash Post is writing some REALLY great stuff these days....
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Old 08-21-2005, 04:16 PM   #138
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Originally posted by Teta040
Yeah..I'm waiting for Monday, like everyone else. Here's hoping the document will be online by Teus....
See,s to me we are following the British legacy in Saudi Arabia...we care not who or what we support, just anything that is designed to control the populace...
If we are so hell bent on creating a compliant dictatorship then why wasn't Ahmed Chalabi stuck in charge immediately? or why did we even go to war for that matter, the US could have gotten sanctions dropped, Saddam could have come in from the cold and then they could buy as much oil as needed?
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Old 08-21-2005, 04:42 PM   #139
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If we are so hell bent on creating a compliant dictatorship then why wasn't Ahmed Chalabi stuck in charge immediately? or why did we even go to war for that matter, the US could have gotten sanctions dropped, Saddam could have come in from the cold and then they could buy as much oil as needed?
Well that just does not fit the picture frame now does it?

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Old 08-21-2005, 07:56 PM   #140
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Well that just does not fit the picture frame now does it?

you mean from no. one terrorist
to someone we do busniess with?

fits it to a t

see Lybia
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Old 08-21-2005, 11:59 PM   #141
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Yes it does, and that is exactly the model that could have been followed if it was "all about oil".
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Old 08-22-2005, 08:14 AM   #142
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Which was probably what would have been followed if Saddam hadn't become unreliable and invade Kuwait (another country all about oil). The US had to stop Saddam there, if they hadn't there would have been the possibility of a war in Saudi-Arabia next. From then on, business with Iraq was impossible, and it became necessary to remove him. Bush sr. couldn't do it, due to massive pressure.
Then there was hope the people of Iraq would topple Saddam themselves, but the dictatorship was too strong and ruthless for that.
When it took too for the Iraquis to oust Saddam Bush jr. came in to finish the job, leaving the US with an ally in Kuwait, Saudi-Arabia AND Iraq, thus gaining control over a large part of the oil reserves in the world.
Great plan. Well, it would have been if it weren't for all those dead people. And yes, in the end this IS about oil.
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Old 08-22-2005, 08:37 AM   #143
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gorgeous article by Frank Rich on all this Crawford, TX goings-ons ...




August 21, 2005
The Swift Boating of Cindy Sheehan
By FRANK RICH
CINDY SHEEHAN couldn't have picked a more apt date to begin the vigil that ambushed a president: Aug. 6 was the fourth anniversary of that fateful 2001 Crawford vacation day when George W. Bush responded to an intelligence briefing titled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States" by going fishing. On this Aug. 6 the president was no less determined to shrug off bad news. Though 14 marine reservists had been killed days earlier by a roadside bomb in Haditha, his national radio address that morning made no mention of Iraq. Once again Mr. Bush was in his bubble, ensuring that he wouldn't see Ms. Sheehan coming. So it goes with a president who hasn't foreseen any of the setbacks in the war he fabricated against an enemy who did not attack inside the United States in 2001.

When these setbacks happen in Iraq itself, the administration punts. But when they happen at home, there's a game plan. Once Ms. Sheehan could no longer be ignored, the Swift Boating began. Character assassination is the Karl Rove tactic of choice, eagerly mimicked by his media surrogates, whenever the White House is confronted by a critic who challenges it on matters of war. The Swift Boating is especially vicious if the critic has more battle scars than a president who connived to serve stateside and a vice president who had "other priorities" during Vietnam.

The most prominent smear victims have been Bush political opponents with heroic Vietnam résumés: John McCain, Max Cleland, John Kerry. But the list of past targets stretches from the former counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke to Specialist Thomas Wilson, the grunt who publicly challenged Donald Rumsfeld about inadequately armored vehicles last December. The assault on the whistle-blower Joseph Wilson - the diplomat described by the first President Bush as "courageous" and "a true American hero" for confronting Saddam to save American hostages in 1991 - was so toxic it may yet send its perpetrators to jail.

True to form, the attack on Cindy Sheehan surfaced early on Fox News, where she was immediately labeled a "crackpot" by Fred Barnes. The right-wing blogosphere quickly spread tales of her divorce, her angry Republican in-laws, her supposed political flip-flops, her incendiary sloganeering and her association with known ticket-stub-carrying attendees of "Fahrenheit 9/11." Rush Limbaugh went so far as to declare that Ms. Sheehan's "story is nothing more than forged documents - there's nothing about it that's real."

But this time the Swift Boating failed, utterly, and that failure is yet another revealing historical marker in this summer's collapse of political support for the Iraq war.

When the Bush mob attacks critics like Ms. Sheehan, its highest priority is to change the subject. If we talk about Richard Clarke's character, then we stop talking about the administration's pre-9/11 inattentiveness to terrorism. If Thomas Wilson is trashed as an insubordinate plant of the "liberal media," we forget the Pentagon's abysmal failure to give our troops adequate armor (a failure that persists today, eight months after he spoke up). If we focus on Joseph Wilson's wife, we lose the big picture of how the administration twisted intelligence to gin up the threat of Saddam's nonexistent W.M.D.'s.

The hope this time was that we'd change the subject to Cindy Sheehan's "wacko" rhetoric and the opportunistic left-wing groups that have attached themselves to her like barnacles. That way we would forget about her dead son. But if much of the 24/7 media has taken the bait, much of the public has not.

The backdrops against which Ms. Sheehan stands - both that of Mr. Bush's what-me-worry vacation and that of Iraq itself - are perfectly synergistic with her message of unequal sacrifice and fruitless carnage. Her point would endure even if the messenger were shot by a gun-waving Crawford hothead or she never returned to Texas from her ailing mother's bedside or the president folded the media circus by actually meeting with her.

The public knows that what matters this time is Casey Sheehan's story, not the mother who symbolizes it. Cindy Sheehan's bashers, you'll notice, almost never tell her son's story. They are afraid to go there because this young man's life and death encapsulate not just the noble intentions of those who went to fight this war but also the hubris, incompetence and recklessness of those who gave the marching orders.

Specialist Sheehan was both literally and figuratively an Eagle Scout: a church group leader and honor student whose desire to serve his country drove him to enlist before 9/11, in 2000. He died with six other soldiers on a rescue mission in Sadr City on April 4, 2004, at the age of 24, the week after four American security workers had been mutilated in Falluja and two weeks after he arrived in Iraq. This was almost a year after the president had declared the end of "major combat operations" from the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln.

According to the account of the battle by John F. Burns in The Times, the insurgents who slaughtered Specialist Sheehan and his cohort were militiamen loyal to Moktada al-Sadr, the anti-American Shiite cleric. The Americans probably didn't stand a chance. As Mr. Burns reported, members of "the new Iraqi-trained police and civil defense force" abandoned their posts at checkpoints and police stations "almost as soon as the militiamen appeared with their weapons, leaving the militiamen in unchallenged control."

Yet in the month before Casey Sheehan's death, Mr. Rumsfeld typically went out of his way to inflate the size and prowess of these Iraqi security forces, claiming in successive interviews that there were "over 200,000 Iraqis that have been trained and equipped" and that they were "out on the front line taking the brunt of the violence." We'll have to wait for historians to tell us whether this and all the other Rumsfeld propaganda came about because he was lied to by subordinates or lying to himself or lying to us or some combination thereof.

As The Times reported last month, even now, more than a year later, a declassified Pentagon assessment puts the total count of Iraqi troops and police officers at 171,500, with only "a small number" able to fight insurgents without American assistance. As for Moktada al-Sadr, he remains as much a player as ever in the new "democratic" Iraq. He controls one of the larger blocs in the National Assembly. His loyalists may have been responsible for last month's apparently vengeful murder of Steven Vincent, the American freelance journalist who wrote in The Times that Mr. Sadr's followers had infiltrated Basra's politics and police force.

Casey Sheehan's death in Iraq could not be more representative of the war's mismanagement and failure, but it is hardly singular. Another mother who has journeyed to Crawford, Celeste Zappala, wrote last Sunday in New York's Daily News of how her son, Sgt. Sherwood Baker, was also killed in April 2004 - in Baghdad, where he was providing security for the Iraq Survey Group, which was charged with looking for W.M.D.'s "well beyond the admission by David Kay that they didn't exist."

As Ms. Zappala noted with rage, her son's death came only a few weeks after Mr. Bush regaled the Radio and Television Correspondents' Association banquet in Washington with a scripted comedy routine featuring photos of him pretending to look for W.M.D.'s in the Oval Office. "We'd like to know if he still finds humor in the fabrications that justified the war that killed my son," Ms. Zappala wrote. (Perhaps so: surely it was a joke that one of the emissaries Mr. Bush sent to Cindy Sheehan in Crawford was Stephen Hadley, the national security adviser who took responsibility for allowing the 16 errant words about doomsday uranium into the president's prewar State of the Union speech.)

Mr. Bush's stand-up shtick for the Beltway press corps wasn't some aberration; it was part of the White House's political plan for keeping the home front cool. America was to yuk it up, party on and spend its tax cuts heedlessly while the sacrifice of an inadequately manned all-volunteer army in Iraq was kept out of most Americans' sight and minds. This is why the Pentagon issued a directive at the start of Operation Iraqi Freedom forbidding news coverage of "deceased military personnel returning to or departing from" air bases. It's why Mr. Bush, unlike Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter, has not attended funeral services for the military dead. It's why January's presidential inauguration, though nominally dedicated to the troops, was a gilded $40 million jamboree at which the word Iraq was banished from the Inaugural Address.

THIS summer in Crawford, the White House went to this playbook once too often. When Mr. Bush's motorcade left a grieving mother in the dust to speed on to a fund-raiser, that was one fat-cat party too far. The strategy of fighting a war without shared national sacrifice has at last backfired, just as the strategy of Swift Boating the war's critics has reached its Waterloo before Patrick Fitzgerald's grand jury in Washington. The 24/7 cable and Web attack dogs can keep on sliming Cindy Sheehan. The president can keep trying to ration the photos of flag-draped caskets. But this White House no longer has any more control over the insurgency at home than it does over the one in Iraq.
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Old 08-22-2005, 10:56 AM   #144
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We'll know that, Irvine, if the WHite Hoise fails next month in its most successful scandal-scaring tactic: diverting public attention by inventing another great news stary to take media attention away. If Cindy is still big news after the Supreme COurt hearings, I'll eat my shoes.

The reason we didn't promote Chalbi was he didn't behave the way he was supposed to. He didn't let us control him when he set foot on Iraqi soil in the summer of 2003. He began enoucraging the growth of homegrown political parties. There was just this swirl of democratci activity in the early days. He also was a fan of Ayatolah Sistani, who was pushing for a democratci process. Democray wasn't a big theme in the early days of the war. SO, Chalabi was "in disgrace" by Washington. Later on, whwn Iraq prove dmore difficlt to pacify, Bush realized he neded an inpriational figure Iraqis could rally around, so now they're Chalbi is back in thier good graces. Unfortunately, Chalabi I am sure feels betrayed by Bush, when his democratic revoluation was shut down, he rightly sees throguh the sham...and orodnary Iraqis who are still pro-American after Abu Gharib don't trust him now that he was in disgrace.

And yes..it IS about the oil....
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Old 08-22-2005, 01:15 PM   #145
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Cindy Sheehan has NOT in my opinion been SWIFT BOATED.....

If you are going to step into the limelight, expect to be looked at under a microscope.

I have looked at enough transcripts of her speeches and who she has surrounded herself by over the past year to believe that she is USING her son, right or wrong.

I think this article pretty much sheds light on her, and is pretty much close to my opinion of her.....and IF you think the Boston Globe is part of Rove's machine....good luck to you....

[Q]The Cindy Sheehan you don't know
By Cathy Young, Globe Columnist | August 22, 2005

IT IS ENORMOUSLY difficult to say anything critical about Cindy Sheehan, the Everymom of the antiwar movement, without sounding indecently callous. She is, after all, a woman who has lost her child -- one of humankind's most universal images of grief. Her vigil outside President Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, where she has vowed to stay until the president meets with her and hears her out, has inspired great sympathy. Conservative attempts to make an issue of Sheehan's far-left ties have been cited as an example of how low those abominable right-wingers will to stoop: They'll even slime a grieving mother.

I respect Sheehan's pain, no doubt compounded by her mother's stroke last week. Yet Sheehan is not simply expressing her pain and rage, privately or even publicly; when she turns her grief into a political cause, her politics cannot remain off-limits.

Sheehan's first and foremost demand is that all American troops be brought home from Iraq immediately. On this scale, irrationality becomes dangerous. Even many of those who opposed the war in Iraq from the start are convinced that a quick pullout would be a disaster -- both for the Iraqis, and for all those who would suffer if Iraq became a fully operational terrorist base. Who will have to give account to the bereaved men and women whose loved ones will be killed as a result?

But there's more than that to Sheehan's politics. She is not simply against the war in Iraq (and, as she told talk show host Chris Matthews on CNBC, against the war in Afghanistan as well). She has thrown in her lot with the hardcore Michael Moore left, and this less savory aspect of her crusade has been largely ignored by the respectful media.

In her public appearances, Sheehan has not only called Bush ''the biggest terrorist in the world" but suggested that his ''band of neocons" deliberately allowed the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 to happen: ''9/11 was their Pearl Harbor to get their neo-con agenda through," she told a cheering crowd at San Francisco State University last April.

That crowd, by the way, was holding a rally in support of Lynne Stewart, a radical New York attorney convicted in 2003 of aiding and abetting a terrorist conspiracy. Sheehan compared Stewart -- who served as a liaison between her incarcerated client, terrorist mastermind Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, and his network outside -- to Atticus Finch, the lawyer in ''To Kill a Mockingbird" who heroically defends a black man falsely accused of raping a white woman in the Jim Crow South.

Even more troubling opinions have surfaced in an e-mail Sheehan sent to ABC News last April: ''Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC [Project for the New American Century, a neoconservative think thank] Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the army to protect America, not Israel."

After some media outlets publicized these comments, which smack of blaming the Jews for drawing the U.S. into the war in Iraq, Sheehan disavowed them: she claims the offending lines were inserted into her email by an ABC News staffer. (The original email has been lost due to an Internet virus attack.) But this latest conspiracy-mongering is hard to believe, especially given the general anti-Israel tenor of Sheehan's public statements: for instance, she railed against the notion that ''it's okay for Israel to have nuclear weapons, but Iran or Syria better not get nuclear weapons."

A comment on the left-wing website Daily Kos described Sheehan as ''Terri Schiavo reincarnated." I believe this was meant as a compliment. But actually, the Sheehan circus has a lot in common with the Schiavo circus, none of it good. Both stories represent a triumph -- on different sides of the political divide -- of emotion- and sentiment-driven politics. Schiavo's parents could go off on paranoid, crazy, vitriolic rants, and enjoy a certain immunity by virtue of their unthinkable tragedy. The same is true of Sheehan.

Sheehan's grief entitles her to sympathy, which is why I believe the president should have granted her the meeting she wanted. (On pragmatic grounds, it would have also taken the sting out of Sheehan's protest.) But her loss does not give her, as New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd has claimed, an ''absolute" moral authority -- any more than it would if her reaction to her son's death was to demand a US nuclear strike against the insurgents.
[/Q]
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Old 08-22-2005, 01:20 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
Cindy Sheehan has NOT in my opinion been SWIFT BOATED.....

If you are going to step into the limelight, expect to be looked at under a microscope.[/Q]
You're still singing from the same old hymn sheet, and frankly you're starting to look a little ridiculous. Her motives, whether noble or not, are not really particularly of significance at this point.

Looking at the broader issue, even Fox commentators are lashing the new Iraqi constitution.

FOX commentators questioning the President's policy, for heaven's sakes.
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Old 08-22-2005, 01:30 PM   #147
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Thanks...I like the tune I am singing.....
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Old 08-22-2005, 01:35 PM   #148
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Dread: does it matter what she thinks were the real motivations for the war?

the woman's son is dead, she is protesting and asking questions peacefully and respectfully, and she's winning. an anti-war movement is coalescing right around her right at the moment when public opinion is turning against Iraq and especially against Bush's handling of the war.

think of her what you like; it doesn't change the fact that the war is going badly, and even Sen. Hegel (a republican) is itching for an exit strategy.

she's won.
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Old 08-22-2005, 01:40 PM   #149
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Dread: does it matter what she thinks were the real motivations for the war?

the woman's son is dead, she is protesting and asking questions peacefully and respectfully, and she's winning. an anti-war movement is coalescing right around her right at the moment when public opinion is turning against Iraq and especially against Bush's handling of the war.

think of her what you like; it doesn't change the fact that the war is going badly, and even Sen. Hegel (a republican) is itching for an exit strategy.

she's won.
I am still itching for a proper ENTRY strategy....

I do not find her respectful...I find her rhetoric over the past year to be so severe...I do not care who the President is, I would not want the President to meet her.

Has she been respectful in Crawford, sure. The media is now paying attention.

Has she been respectful over the year? No.

Has she respected the father who has asked that she take down his son's cross at camp Casey? NO

Sen. Hagel, I respect. That does not give her a legitimate claim to meet with the President.
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Old 08-22-2005, 03:42 PM   #150
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i know we're all shocked (shocked!) that Cindy Sheehan has political views; that she dares to question the president; that she might not have a political and moral philosphy that isn't in lockstep with the Republican party; that she (shock, horror) meets with people who support her; that she knows how to work the media; that she holds views that somehow make her pain and sorrow illegitimate.

well, so did someone else:





Gary Younge
Monday August 22, 2005
The Guardian


The myth of Rosa Parks is well known. The tired seamstress who boarded a bus in Montgomery, Alabama, in December 1955 and refused to give up her seat to a white man has become one of the most enduring legends of the civil rights era. Her subsequent arrest started the bus boycott that launched the civil rights movement. It transformed the apartheid of America's southern states from a local idiosyncrasy to an international scandal and turned a previously unknown 26-year-old preacher, Martin Luther King, into a household name.

"She was a victim of both the forces of history and the forces of destiny," said King. "She had been tracked down by the zeitgeist - the spirit of the times." The reality was somewhat different. Parks was no victim. The zeitgeist did not track her down; she embodied it. She had a long history of anti-racist activism and had often been thrown off buses for resisting segregation. Far from being a meek lady in need of a foot massage she was a keen supporter of Malcolm X, who never fully embraced King's strategy of non-violence.
"To call Rosa Parks a poor, tired seamstress and not talk about her role as a community leader and civil rights activist as well, is to turn an organised struggle for freedom into a personal act of frustration," writes Herbert Kohl in his book She Would Not Be Moved."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists...553870,00.html





i'm not saying that she's Rosa Parks. not yet anyway.
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