MERGED--> Illegal Immigration + Illegal Aliens USA

[the iron horse]

Illegal Aliens USA

What do you think?

 

[nbcrusader]

No one really cares that people break the law.

 

[Angela Harlem]

so those in their ivory towers dont love their neighbours?

 

[melon]

Let's start prosecuting and heavily fining those who employ illegal immigrants. I think it would be fun to watch some CEOs cry.

Melon

 

[Angela Harlem]

but just to clarify, i have no opinion on illegal immigrants in the us. only americans care.

 

[nbcrusader]

Let's start prosecuting and heavily fining those who employ illegal immigrants. I think it would be fun to watch some CEOs cry.

Melon

Those laws are in place as well, thought their enforcement is not consistent either. I've had to show a passport for every job I've taken.


Do statistics show that large corporations are the biggest employers of illegals?

 

[nbcrusader]

but just to clarify, i have no opinion on illegal immigrants in the us. only americans care.

Care for what?

Immigration policy?

World economics?

Fair trade?

 

[deep]

Re: Illegal Aliens USA

What do you think?

 

[melon]

Those laws are in place as well, thought their enforcement is not consistent either. I've had to show a passport for every job I've taken.

Do statistics show that large corporations are the biggest employers of illegals?

As an example, it's been stated that if you walk into any meat processing plant in Nebraska, you're going to find nothing but illegal immigrants.

As for passports, pretty much nobody in Middle America is expected to have one, and as long as you have a fake ID and fake SSN card, you're in good shape. Illegal immigrants contribute $7 billion a year in Social Security taxes, because there's no system to validate whether the number presented at employment is correct.

You could say that the government has failed to do its job, and with all the mass hysteria generated by the GOP on this election year (surprise, surprise!), there's been no discussion on verifying SSNs.

Melon

 

[BVS]

Yeah I guess it has been a whole 2 weeks since a thread about illegal immigrants.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Care for what?

Immigration policy?

World economics?

Fair trade?

you might have missed the title of this thread. i cant help but wonder why it was written for americans...as if you guys are the only ones with this issue?... if the author intended this to be about the specifics of say, mexicans and the US, fine. but he didn't state so. therefore. it just comes across as arrogance and tunnel vision.

 

[Liesje]

My dad recently explained his personal experience to me, because I was ranting about how I'm more pissed that emplpyers get away with employing illegals (and basically exploiting them) than the fact that they are here. My dad is a sales rep for a huge lumber and veneer company. They have plants all over the US and Canada. At some of the US plants, most of the plant workers are Mexican, and most are illegal. The problem is that when the plant hires workers, if the worker is able to produce one of three documents (can't remember exactly what), then the employer legally cannot challenge whether or not the person is illegal. So many of the illegals purchase Social Security Numbers and use them to get jobs. Of course the plants know they are illegal, but THEY could be prosecuted if they refuse to hire someone because they are suspicious of whether their SSN is legit.

I realize that many companies love to hire illegals and exploit them, but I guess I never realized that even for companies that prefer not to, it's difficult because they are not allowed to challenge the validity of someone's documents even if they suspect they are fake, stolen, or were sold.

 

[nbcrusader]

you might have missed the title of this thread. i cant help but wonder why it was written for americans...as if you guys are the only ones with this issue?... if the author intended this to be about the specifics of say, mexicans and the US, fine. but he didn't state so. therefore. it just comes across as arrogance and tunnel vision.

Why is it arrogance when a US member starts a thread (albeit vague) regarding illegal immigration?

 

[Angela Harlem]

Ah sheesus, nbc. It's not his being American which makes him look arrogant. It's directing this topic toward the American audience only. It's blase forgetting the rest of the world. Or is it? I cant tell. The thread starts with one sentence and is titled to single out the US only. If it's (like I said) for the US to discuss those who border you anmd specifically look at their illegal entering of your country, then fine. However, after a bloody poor start (of one vague sentence - which appears to be agenda driven - regardless of how you might see it), this is looking very much to be either an opportunity to stir shit by revving everyone up and getting their backs up over (I assume) S. American immigrants (Do Canadas frequently sneak over your borders?) or an ego-centric situation where again only the US seems to matter or is relevant. Etc, etc, etc.

 

[nbcrusader]

Ah sheesus, nbc. It's not his being American which makes him look arrogant. It's directing this topic toward the American audience only. It's blase forgetting the rest of the world. Or is it? I cant tell. The thread starts with one sentence and is titled to single out the US only. If it's (like I said) for the US to discuss those who border you anmd specifically look at their illegal entering of your country, then fine. However, after a bloody poor start (of one vague sentence - which appears to be agenda driven - regardless of how you might see it), this is looking very much to be either an opportunity to stir shit by revving everyone up and getting their backs up over (I assume) S. American immigrants (Do Canadas frequently sneak over your borders?) or an ego-centric situation where again only the US seems to matter or is relevant. Etc, etc, etc.

Anyone can discuss the illegal immigration situation in the US.

The thread started unfortunately vague, which is not helped its content.

The fact is we had various protests across the US today. The protests, however, did not suggest a solution to the current situation.

 

[bonoman]

My dad recently explained his personal experience to me, because I was ranting about how I'm more pissed that emplpyers get away with employing illegals (and basically exploiting them) than the fact that they are here. My dad is a sales rep for a huge lumber and veneer company. They have plants all over the US and Canada. At some of the US plants, most of the plant workers are Mexican, and most are illegal. The problem is that when the plant hires workers, if the worker is able to produce one of three documents (can't remember exactly what), then the employer legally cannot challenge whether or not the person is illegal. So many of the illegals purchase Social Security Numbers and use them to get jobs. Of course the plants know they are illegal, but THEY could be prosecuted if they refuse to hire someone because they are suspicious of whether their SSN is legit.

I realize that many companies love to hire illegals and exploit them, but I guess I never realized that even for companies that prefer not to, it's difficult because they are not allowed to challenge the validity of someone's documents even if they suspect they are fake, stolen, or were sold.

I would bet my life that those Canadian plants dont have any or next to no illegals working in them. Because they must verify that they are legal and we dont have a border thats unwatched (and its not with Mexico) I would suggest the USA us a two pronged attack at the problem, make sure employers arent abusing the system and protect your southern border.

 

[Liesje]

I would bet my life that those Canadian plants dont have any or next to no illegals working in them. Because they must verify that they are legal and we dont have a border thats unwatched (and its not with Mexico) I would suggest the USA us a two pronged attack at the problem, make sure employers arent abusing the system and protect your southern border.

Probably. Like I said in the original post, he was specifically referring to US plants in certain parts of the country.

 

[ABEL]

It's directing this topic toward the American audience only.

i don't think the thread title is directing the issue towards the american audience only but it's the main topic in the US now due to bush's immigration reform. unless the thread title has been changed and i've missed something lol.

illegal immigrants from mexico and s. america probably make up most of the illegal immigrant population in the US, but this immigration reform isn't geared only at mexico or canada. i'm kinda tired of everyone on the news, marches here in dallas, lulac, etc. seemingly turning it into a mexican issue when it involves all illegal immigrants.

i haven't read all of bush's immigration reform so i don't know if i agree with all of it. as opposed to bush as i am in everything else he's done, i do agree that there needs to be some sort tighter restrictions for illegal immigration.

 

[Justin24]

Illegal immigration costs Tax payers Billions of Dollars. in 1996 alone it costs 33 Billion dollars.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersf134

Peoples ID's are being stolen and used by illegal immigrants which hurt citizens of this country.

http://redtape.msnbc.com/2006/03/hidden_cost_of_.html

We need to enfore strict border policy's and get a guest worker program started. I have mentioned this before that we need a more secure border.

More info on how much it costs to school and treat illegals.

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=2537000&nav=DIH7Ssy8

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html

"Among the findings:

Illegal alien households are estimated to use $2,700 a year more in services than they pay in taxes, creating a total fiscal burden of nearly $10.4 billion on the federal budget in 2002."

 

[redsox04]

i don't think the thread title is directing the issue towards the american audience only but it's the main topic in the US now due to bush's immigration reform.

Agreed. I didn't interpret this thread as any sort of American "arrogance" as was stated earlier... its just that the immigration issue is currently the main headline here in the states.

 

[Irvine511]

um, well, speaking of "American," on my way home from work last night, i noticed the metro was more crowded than usual due to the crowds from the protest on the Mall yesterday.

it was unexpectedly moving. small children waving signs that said, "We Are Americans," to teenagers waving flags to construction workers in 1992 Edge-style red-white-and-blue bandanas, to mothers with strollers adorned in flags, etc. the mood was happy, upbeat, smiling, respectful, and i couldn't help but feel tremendous sympathy for these people who do work very hard, for much less money than i would imagine your average interference-posting U2 fan would ever work.

"breaking the law" seems rather besides-the-point to the present situation.

humanzing the issue did much to sway me towards simply making citizens out of those who are here, continuing to encourage legal immigration, and ultimately tightening border security simply because it seems that this is the least a government should be able to offer it's citizens: secure borders.

what it also did was expose the xenophobia of those who would scapegoat illegals as the cause of any number of economic problems.

 

[verte76]

I think the person wanted to be specific and discuss the current problem in the U.S, not exclude anyone from discussion. It's all in the news, there's the bill in Congress and demonstrations all over the place and I think that was on the poster's mind. This issue comes up in my church quite a bit because these people are Catholic. We had a huge controversy in Birmingham over the shutting down of a cultural center that, among other things, was used as a point for transporting people to work. Many of these people are illegal immigrants. The church hierarchy put up a huge stink when the place was shut down, and there's no end in sight to the controversy.

 

[Carek1230]

Illegal immigrants are, simply put, illegal. Something needs to be done to limit this from happening, and I agree that tighter restrictions need to be placed on employers with stiff penalties for employing illegals. As much as I am opposed to Bush, I have to agree something needs to be done about this illegal immigrant issue. I am tired of hearing about it on the news, I am tired of hearing it being discussed. I am tired of seeing tax payer money being wasted on this issue. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOW!

 

[joyfulgirl]

um, well, speaking of "American," on my way home from work last night, i noticed the metro was more crowded than usual due to the crowds from the protest on the Mall yesterday.

it was unexpectedly moving. small children waving signs that said, "We Are Americans," to teenagers waving flags to construction workers in 1992 Edge-style red-white-and-blue bandanas, to mothers with strollers adorned in flags, etc. the mood was happy, upbeat, smiling, respectful, and i couldn't help but feel tremendous sympathy for these people who do work very hard, for much less money than i would imagine your average interference-posting U2 fan would ever work.

"breaking the law" seems rather besides-the-point to the present situation.

humanzing the issue did much to sway me towards simply making citizens out of those who are here, continuing to encourage legal immigration, and ultimately tightening border security simply because it seems that this is the least a government should be able to offer it's citizens: secure borders.

what it also did was expose the xenophobia of those who would scapegoat illegals as the cause of any number of economic problems.

Well said. So many Americans have willingly exploited the services of illegal immigrants that it now seems cruel to suddenly denounce them as illegal.

 

[Irvine511]

i also wonder how many of our ancestors (great grandparents and beyond) were "illegal" in their time. how many came for a job, and simply never left.

there was a time when, if you showed up, you were basically legal.

 

[MissMoo]

There was an article on this in the local paper saying that the S&P (?) did a study and found that the burden that illegals make on our society is pretty negligible and that the contribution they make through taxes (sales and payroll) balance it out. Also, the fraction of burden that put on the school systems could be eliminated if the SS# dollars were taken out of the "suspicious fund" (a fund that all fake SS# contributions are stored in). Anyway, that will never happen, but it was interesting to hear that the burden is pretty negligible.

 

[nbcrusader]

Well said. So many Americans have willingly exploited the services of illegal immigrants that it now seems cruel to suddenly denounce them as illegal.

"Denouncing them as illegal" mixes two different concepts.

There are many people in this country who have not followed the various immigration policies - hence the general term illegal. To date, there has been no change in immigration policy that expands the methods of immigration to change the status.

The "denouncing" part is a mix bag, ranging from the racist to the economic impact.

 

[thrillme]

You have hit the nail on the head here, every single one on the people that have bitched about immigrants on this thread are themselves descended from immigrants.


The hypocrisy is honestly staggering.


Next time I need an emetic, I'll log onto FYM and read one of these threads about immigration, 'cos I'm honestly about to puke. I'll leave my comments about the issue at that, cos if you insult another member you get banned, but it's ok to insult an entire race of people seemingly (unless you insult Americans, that's a big no-no on here).

Yeah, I pretty much avoid "immigration in the U.S." discussions, considering the fact that a majority of the people in the U.S. are technically descendents of illegal immigrants...criminals as some state. The irony, hypocrisy of it is...just...can you imagine if someone from the Cherokee, Navajo, etc., nations were to read this thread or what they must think listening to these discussions in actual "real-world" debates.

(runs off, is reminded why I don't usually post in this forum, I'll keep my comments on this sorta stuff in real life)



Someone's getting married and Bono's got a new hairdoo)Which now means I have wedding plans to start thinking about *I'll get married when Adam does or at least admits he is* I thought he was secretly married and was just keeping quiet all this time





*quote edited by yolland to insert date--this post and several others were split off from an old thread prior to merging*

 

[nbcrusader]

Yeah, I pretty much avoid "immigration in the U.S." discussions, considering the fact that a majority of the people in the U.S. are technically descendents of illegal immigrants...criminals as some state. The irony, hypocrisy of it is...just...can you imagine if someone from the Cherokee, Navajo, etc., nations were to read this thread or what they must think listening to these discussions in actual "real-world" debates.

This is really a nonsensical argument - not a "fact". First, you would need a sovereign nation with established immigration laws that are then violated to support your statement.

 

[Rono]

I guess globalization is only accaptable for making money for the rich but when a poor man try to find a future for his family, the sunday afternoon christians wants to make him a criminal because they are afraid of there income or whatever.

Secure the borders but not make then criminals...

BTW, i guess middle America and south america must be very poor,..why else want they go to a country where people with low jobs not even can mantain their family.