MERGED--> Illegal Immigration + Illegal Aliens USA

[U2DMfan]

Do you have polls to show that the people dont want to build a wall.

those for building the wall....

my link is above
According to the Time Poll, it's 56%
According to Fox it's 93% for the Mexican and Canadian border
According to CNN it's 48%
According to CBS it's 48%

some of those, like Fox is split into a 'Strongly Agree/Somewhat Agree' type polling, but nevertheless, they agree.

Personally, I am not opposed to it, although I am not sure how effective it would really be.

 

[Justin24]

This was from another message board. A member there received an e-mail from a friend.

I got this the other day that says it all:

Dear President Bush:
> > >
> > >I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family,
> > >and I would like to ask you to assist me. I'm going to walk across
> > >the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few
> > >arrangements. I know you can help with this.
> > >
> > >I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports,
> > >immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the
> > >same way you do here.
> > >
> > >So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that
> > >I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting
> > >the following:
> > >
> > >1. Free medical care for my entire family.
> > >
> > >2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I
> > >might need, whether I use them or not.
> > >
> > >3. All government forms need to be printed in English.
> > >
> > >4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.
> > >
> > >5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.
> > >
> > >6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of
> > >the flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.
> > >
> > >7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and
> > >lunch.
> > >
> > >8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy
> > >access to government services.
> > >
> > >9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any
> > >effort to learn local traffic laws.
> > >
> > >10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the
> > >memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all
> > >police officers speak English.
> > >
> > >11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag
> > >decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I
> > >do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
> > >
> > >12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes,
> > >and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.
> > >
> > >13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice
> > >and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might
> > >place on the economy.
> > >
> > >14. Eventually I want to be able to vote and have all election
>materials
> > >and notices sent to me in English with Spanish as a second language..
> > >
> > >I know this is an easy request because you already do all these
> > >things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico.


I am sorry, but if you are not a citizen and come here illegally, you do not have the right to stay. We cannot take care of the CITIZENS we already have. Just because we are America does not mean anyone has the right to DEMAND charity from us. You hate your country, Fix it. And the "they only do the crap jobs we don't want" is BS too. I lost several management jobs because I was not bilingual...in my own country I loose good paying jobs because the workers don't speak english. Don't even get me started on having to go out of my way if I want to get my fast food correct and without hassle. Before you slam me, I am trying to learn Spanish and Italian, not because I have to have it in my own country, but so when I travel in the next year or so, I will not offend people in other countries by expecting them to speak English. The US citizens in the protesters need to start worrying about more important things, like the effect on our economy is going to handle spending two billion dollars a week in Iraq and Afganistan rather than demanding money and resources for people who break the law and are not citizens. Let the hating me begin.

 

[BVS]

You hate your country, Fix it.

You keep saying this, but you don't really understand...

How much power do the poor have here to "fix" things? Now think about how much the poor have in Mexico.

And the "they only do the crap jobs we don't want" is BS too. I lost several management jobs because I was not bilingual...in my own country I loose good paying jobs because the workers don't speak english.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything. How does you not getting a job because you're bilingual have to do with "they only do the crap jobs we don't want"?

 

[Justin24]

If you read above this was from another board. What about the poor in the US? They have plenty of options to fix there problem. Why dont the people of mexico help the poor and help make there country better in the process.

 

[BVS]

If you read above this was from another board.

I thought the last part was yours, my bad.

What about the poor in the US? They have plenty of options to fix there problem.

Um, yeah...

Well that's debatable, but really this has nothing to do with immigration.

 

[toscano]

If you read above this was from another board. What about the poor in the US? They have plenty of options to fix there problem. Why dont the people of mexico help the poor and help make there country better in the process.

Oh but that would give us one less reason to rag on the US Government.........

I mean we all know there is no corruption in Mexico and that the income from their natural resources is being wisely used in a fair and wise manner to help all of it's citizens not want to cross the border illegally

 

[Justin24]

Mexico and the US has there fair share of corrpution. The American people are more outspoken about it and have the will to change the problems.

The hispanics (that includes mexicans) solve there problems by bringing it to the US. If you look at it, this might be a plan where all the latin american countrys want the poor people out and dump it on American Society, so they can have their Utopia.

I know the last part sounds far fetched.

 

[toscano]

Mexico and the US has there fair share of corrpution. The American people are more outspoken about it and have the will to change the problems.

The hispanics (that includes mexicans) solve there problems by bringing it to the US. If you look at it, this might be a plan where all the latin american countrys want the poor people out and dump it on American Society, so they can have their Utopia.

I know the last part sounds far fetched.

Well, it's been such a huge success for Cuba.............

 

[Justin24]

Where are you from Toscano? Well people in Cuba must follow Castros rules or be punished, which may mean death.

 

[BVS]

The hispanics (that includes mexicans) solve there problems by bringing it to the US.

Or maybe they are just going to the land of oppurtunity to better their lives.

 

[toscano]

Where are you from Toscano? Well people in Cuba must follow Castros rules or be punished, which may mean death.

I was referring to the Mariel boatlift of 1980 when Cuba sent their worst criminals to the US

I'm a world citizen, currently live in the US but have lived in many places, Socialist, 3rd World, you name it on 3 different continents

 

[Justin24]

Or maybe they are just going to the land of oppurtunity to better their lives.

If they came here for better lives, then they would want to learn the language of their new country. Learn the LAWS (one of which they broke, by crossing into our country illegally.)

The fact is they dont want to learn the customs, language or anything about there new country. They pretty much gather up all the "Hard Money" they worked for and send it back to "Their" families.

A person such as yourself BVS who was born in Texas should know the burden of illegal immigrants.

 

[yolland]

The fact is they dont want to learn the customs, language or anything about there new country.

Can you provide statistical support for this?

 

[Justin24]

Come to California and see how our state tax money is used to make sure everthing is is spanish for people who can't speak the language. Hell when I worked at a video store. I had kids come up to me who spoke broken english because there parents (probably illegal) who could not speak english.

 

[BVS]

If they came here for better lives, then they would want to learn the language of their new country. Learn the LAWS (one of which they broke, by crossing into our country illegally.)

The fact is they dont want to learn the customs, language or anything about there new country. They pretty much gather up all the "Hard Money" they worked for and send it back to "Their" families.

I like how you actually believe this to be cold hard fact.

It's true that some do this. But there are many who come here out of pure desperation and don't have the time or resources to become legal right away and they work their way towards that and getting the rest of their family over here.

A person such as yourself BVS who was born in Texas should know the burden of illegal immigrants.

I know that housing, produce, and almost every other labor backed industry would raise in price if illegal immigrants were automatically shipped out tomorrow.

 

[BVS]

Come to California and see how our state tax money is used to make sure everthing is is spanish for people who can't speak the language. Hell when I worked at a video store. I had kids come up to me who spoke broken english because there parents (probably illegal) who could not speak english.

Did you know the original state constitution of California was written in English and Spanish?

And where do you live? San Mateo? That's English right?

 

[Justin24]

But illegal immigration brings down wages. A fast food employee makes just a little more than what an illegal immigrant makes.

So when the US economy is destroyed I guess they'll all move to China and ruin their and work for 1 yen an hour.

 

[Justin24]

San Mateo is spanish. California kept the name. Remember the Spanish came here and forced the indians (not MEXICAN) to build Missions, farm and learn that God was their only saviour.

 

[BVS]

But illegal immigration brings down wages. A fast food employee makes just a little more than what an illegal immigrant makes.

We've had illegal immigration since day one. I haven't seen a decline in minimum wage. And yes a fast food employee does make just a little more than an illegal immigrant who's working on a farm or construction, but the jobs really aren't comparable now are they?

So when the US economy is destroyed I guess they'll all move to China and ruin their and work for 1 yen an hour.

It would have been destroyed already.

 

[BVS]

San Mateo is spanish. California kept the name.

They KEPT the name?

What were they suppose to do? The Spanish language is part of California's culture. California was part of Mexico at one point.

 

[Justin24]

They KEPT the name?

What were they suppose to do? The Spanish language is part of California's culture. California was part of Mexico at one point.

LOL.

Anyways. This link directs you to all the Indian tribes of California before there was a

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/award98/ienhtml/tribes.html .

Mexico was not recognized until 1821 when they won their freedom of independence. Californina was not part of Mexico until 1824 when it became part of the United Mexican States. They learned spanish when they were occupied by spain.

 

[U2DMfan]

I could be wrong, but here is my hack opinion on the subject....

If you pay the illegals picking cotton etc. the same wage as the legals at McDonalds etc., then eventually you'll have a dearth of cotton pickers, because who in their right mind wants to pick cotton in 95 degree weather vs flip burgers in an A/C room?

So, the wages would have to increase to fill the jobs, in theory.

So, if the business owners are forced to pay wages above board, then in turn they will also be forced to pay a decent wage.
It would, theoretically improve the entire mid to lower class blue collar job market. Which certainly is where the US is taking it up the ass with manufacturing jobs etc. evaporating.

It seems like it won't happen because the big business lobby, which is both left and right of the political spectrum, both sides of the aisle, wants the cheap labor. So really this theory isn't realistic, IMO.

There is nothing gained by allowing these people to remain illegal.
Either give them a chance at citizenship or ship them out.
Since we know, basically no side of the argument besides the paranoid reactionaries wants them shipped back home, then lets give them a chance to play by the rules and close the God damn border. Alleviate the security risk, force them to play by the rules and put a new face on American empathy towards the poor, not just poor but those who want to be American.

Amnesty and closing the border.
The argument against amnesty is giving the illegals a free pass.
Did we retroactively prosecute slave owners? Sure, it was legal at the time, but pretty fucking reprehensible. Point is, we've made some mistakes as a country, the easiest path is to 'do the right' thing, move on, and take the hits that come with it. The argument against closing the border is a ludicrous one. When this Iran thing escalates and there are possibly 50,000 new terrorists from Iran with a vendetta against us because we will eventually have to take action against them, where are they going to try and enter the US, to kill us? The Mexican border. That's not paranoia, that's a reality that we must face now before it's too late.

Now, will it happen (amnesty and closing the border)? I doubt it.
Why? Because big business runs this country.
If the big business lobbyists and special interests want the border open, and illegals performing cheap labor, then it's going to stay that way.

Now, the logical rebuttal to that is to say that the American people will vote out those who aren't securing the border, or those who allow the illegals to remain illegal and cross in hoardes.

The reality is that the big money is behind the issues, rather than the parties. So if Joe Smith is running for Senate in New Mexico and runs on 'closing the border' and 'doing something about the illegals', then he's not going to get the backing from those groups. Making his run at congress/senate much much harder, if not impossible. And it bleeds across both sides of the aisle, so this is the problem. The two party system is fucked. They are both bought and sold by the special interests and lobbyists.Good people, well intentioned people become corrupted, not by immorality, but by the system, they have to play the game.

In short, nothing is going to change much. Maybe on the surface they'll put through some legislation and try and put a new 'face' on the issue with a policy that can't really be enforced. There is legislation in place to prosecute those who hire illegals, but it doesn't work. Why? It's against the greater corporate interest.
They're running this joint.

That was almost Nader-esque, but I believe it.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

A lot of latin americans have come up with a plan that on May 1st no one will buy anything American made (no KFC, no Burger King ...nothing) nor will latin americans work.

I don't think we can all get organized to cause a massive blow to the US economy but it would be sweet to show how bad a dar without latins would be.

 

[Justin24]

Following the middle east way (only with out burning down buildings). If they can put all that effort into this and or trying to cross the boarder, I dont know why they can't put that energy into filling out paper work to become legal citizens.

They would rather take the easy way out. Work here for a few years, send money back and then switch places with the spouse and then later bring there family, to drain our resources.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

I said it once and I'll say it again J24 ...you are an idiot.

 

[Justin24]

Wow a personal attack. nice response. Of course if you were born here and had to deal with these problems you would have an opposing view.

How am I an idiot if I am right on them spending so much time here trying to come up with a walk out to gain citizenship.

BEB I say let the Gringos send our rednecks to your country and massivly reproduce and then ask for welfare, that everything be in english also and that you give us voting rights and all.

How can our congress listen to people who are not legal. they have an obligation to protect the American people, not try and get more votes by legalzing illegals easily.

I find it funny how they hold up signs saying "No Somo Criminales" when they are by breaking the law Entering illegally in the first place.

 

[BVS]

Mexico was not recognized until 1821 when they won their freedom of independence. Californina was not part of Mexico until 1824 when it became part of the United Mexican States. They learned spanish when they were occupied by spain.

Of course we all had native american tribes before anyone else. I'm not sure what your point is. My whole point is that Mexico and Spanish are all part of what California is, so to bitch about having everything in English and Spanish seems pretty pointless.

 

[Justin24]

But this is not New Spain or Mexico anymore. This is the United States. Where the official language is English, not Spanish.

 

[BVS]

Following the middle east way (only with out burning down buildings). If they can put all that effort into this and or trying to cross the boarder, I dont know why they can't put that energy into filling out paper work to become legal citizens.

They would rather take the easy way out. Work here for a few years, send money back and then switch places with the spouse and then later bring there family, to drain our resources.

Yeah minus the personal attack, BEB was right.

 

[Justin24]

Chiano's and African American's in LA were protesting against illegal immigrants.

Walking out for a day would be a very stupid idea. The ArchBishop in CA is against it.
If they want to go out an protest fine, I do hope they realize that they could have started filling out proper paperwork. Doing this walkout will backlash against them in the end.

I hope you know how to speak spanish BVS. If not the community college is pretty cheap. I advise this for you.