MERGED--> Illegal Immigration + Illegal Aliens USA

[dazzlingamy]

I think the reason the usa is over run wih illigial immigrants its unlike Australia and the UK which are islands and therefore have extremely strict laws when flying in and patrols going all around the coast line all the time and Canada which only has the USA as a neighbour is you have this massive border attached to the second poorest continant. You advertise through your own marketing magnets (fast food etc) this dream life (when we all know its not really all that much of a dream) and the temptation is so hard to resist!

Instead of fussing over the immigrants taking all the jobs, why are there not laws in place to make sure businesses can't hire them? Are there laws like that? Itt just seems from what your saying that ppl know they are hiring illigal immgrants, which i would think would be against the law (since they've already broken the law) Here if you apply for a job you need a tax file number (like social security) and businesses can get and DO get in massive amounts of trouble if they don't get that information or a found to be paying cash in hand...

maybe stronger penalties on hiring illigial workers will stem the jobs and therefore less people will be immigrating?

 

[MsGiggles]

Instead of fussing over the immigrants taking all the jobs, why are there not laws in place to make sure businesses can't hire them? Are there laws like that? Itt just seems from what your saying that ppl know they are hiring illigal immgrants, which i would think would be against the law (since they've already broken the law) Here if you apply for a job you need a tax file number (like social security) and businesses can get and DO get in massive amounts of trouble if they don't get that information or a found to be paying cash in hand...

maybe stronger penalties on hiring illigial workers will stem the jobs and therefore less people will be immigrating?

There are penalties in place for knowingly hiring illegal immigrants. The jobs they are "taking"is for the type of work that nobody else wants such as fast food...so they're not really taking them for anybody....or for agricultural type jobs where the employer doesn't want to pay benefits, etc. so they pay the illegal workers at the end of the day.

 

[nbcrusader]

Instead of fussing over the immigrants taking all the jobs, why are there not laws in place to make sure businesses can't hire them? Are there laws like that? Itt just seems from what your saying that ppl know they are hiring illigal immgrants, which i would think would be against the law (since they've already broken the law) Here if you apply for a job you need a tax file number (like social security) and businesses can get and DO get in massive amounts of trouble if they don't get that information or a found to be paying cash in hand...

maybe stronger penalties on hiring illigial workers will stem the jobs and therefore less people will be immigrating?

There are laws preventing employers from hiring illegals. Every job applicant must sign a form and provide evidence of citizenship (passport or drivers license and another specified form of identification). Doesn't matter who you are or what you look like.

From an economic standpoint, illegal immigration is just the flip side to outsourcing jobs to other countries. Instead of taking the jobs there, they are filled with employee that come here. Either way, the cost of labor is lower.

 

[Justin24]

I love it.

Another American boo-hooing 'cause our country is so great that half the world wants to come here...

Oh yeah. Let's seal the borders.

Do you have any idea how difficult it would be to completely seal our borders? You remember the Berlin Wall? That's the kind of hardware it would take to really and truly keep out the 'undesirables'.

And we really want to live behind something like that. Oh yeah.

The only reason you probably dont care is because you dont have to deal with so many illegal aliens in West Virginia.





*quote edited by yolland to insert date--this post and several others were split off from an old thread prior to merging*

 

[deep]

Originally posted by Macfistowannabe (08-30-2005)
Illegal Immigration: Where do you stand?

Many times, soaking wet on a beach or river bank
trying to dry off.





*quote edited by yolland to insert date--this post and several others were split off from an old thread prior to merging*

 

[Muggsy]

Yeah, I pretty much avoid "immigration in the U.S." discussions, considering the fact that a majority of the people in the U.S. are technically descendents of illegal immigrants...criminals as some state. The irony, hypocrisy of it is...just...can you imagine if someone from the Cherokee, Navajo, etc., nations were to read this thread or what they must think listening to these discussions in actual "real-world" debates.
[/SIZE]

.... and without mentioning the vast mayority of Latin americans who (including me) descend from natives.


but.. hey!!... who am I to talk???...

 

[chiso]

I [seriously] can't believe what I've been reading...

As the son of 2 South American immigrants [naturalized US citizens], I would have felt extremely miserable and angry if my parents were on the brink of being labeled "felons." They came here for my siblings and me! They came to work. They didn't kill anyone! If it wasn't for them, I probably wouldn't have gotten a good education, wouldn't be in college, or wouldn't even be posting this. As 'exaggerated' as this may sound to most of you, I'd probably be living in poverty back in South America, stealing or [at best] earning 150 dollars a month [In Ecuador, the currency is Dollars... and things are faaaar from cheap, as you may think.]

All I can say is put yourselves in the illegal [or even legal] immigrants' place...

 

[BVS]

The only reason you probably dont care is because you dont have to deal with so many illegal aliens in West Virginia.

So only those that live on the border are concerned? And what about those that live on the border and don't feel like building a "Berlin" wall?

 

[Justin24]

So only those that live on the border are concerned? And what about those that live on the border and don't feel like building a "Berlin" wall?

Do you have polls to show that the people dont want to build a wall.

according to polls on this link, 60% of Americans favor building a wall.

http://www.parapundit.com/archives/003107.html

 

[deep]

How big do you want it?



These guys will build it for $6.00 an hour.

 

[Justin24]

The effects of illegal immigration.

"A study published in the Spring issue of The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons reveals that in California alone, 84 hospitals are being forced to close their doors because they have been overwhelmed by illegal aliens who they must care for without reimbursement."

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articles/article.html?storyid=4130

They cause a great burden on society in the United States. Someone said earlier that they bring in 7 Billion Dollars, yet in CA they use 9 Billion dollars of our money, and almost 30 Billion Dollars Nationally.

Illegal Immigration also brings crime from other countries.

"I asked the Miami Police Department’s spokesman, Detective Delrish Moss, about his employer’s policy on illegal law-breakers. In September 2003, the force had arrested a Honduran visa violator for seven terrifying rapes. The previous year, Miami officers had had the suspect, Reynaldo Elias Rapalo, in custody for lewd and lascivious molestation, without checking his immigration status. Had they done so, they would have discovered his visa overstay, a deportable offense. "We have shied away from unnecessary involvement dealing with immigration issues," explains Detective Moss, choosing his words carefully, "because of our large immigration population."

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/back704.html

 

[Justin24]

And pretty much the people getting the most attention out of this is the illegal mexican immigrants, who once again show there egotistical attitude and trying to be a more important hispanic race than other smaller countries.

 

[Mofo]

And pretty much the people getting the most attention out of this is the illegal mexican immigrants, who once again show there egotistical attitude and trying to be a more important hispanic race than other smaller countries.

yes because us mexicans like to get all the attention...

once more you only prove your ignorance I've been reading this whole tread and even I don't agree with many posts I respect them because they are informed opinions, your's on the other hand....I'll keep the insults to myself...

 

[BVS]

Do you have polls to show that the people dont want to build a wall.

according to polls on this link, 60% of Americans favor building a wall.

http://www.parapundit.com/archives/003107.html

I'm not talking about polls. I never said anything about knowing how many do or do not support a wall.

I saw no source for the poll. But that site is extremely biased.

 

[randhail]

If you give a mouse a cookie...

Migrants Rush to Border Hoping for Passage

 

[BVS]

And pretty much the people getting the most attention out of this is the illegal mexican immigrants, who once again show there egotistical attitude and trying to be a more important hispanic race than other smaller countries.

Wow I don't even know where to begin with this statement.

So I won't comment except the arrogance is on the other side.

 

[BVS]

If you give a mouse a cookie...

So we're trapping them?

 

[randhail]

So we're trapping them?

Not quite...

 

[BVS]

Not quite...

Gotcha. I'm not up to date with my children's books.

But honestly can we blame them? If you were living in those conditions and had a chance to better your life...

 

[randhail]

It's a tough call because I can appreciate them wanting a better life, but it also shows a complete lack of respect in my opinion. People get wind that amnesty may be granted and then all of a sudden the flood gates open. It's a slap in the face to those people going through the system and trying to do it the right way. There just isn't a simple solution.

 

[BVS]

but it also shows a complete lack of respect in my opinion. People get wind that amnesty may be granted and then all of a sudden the flood gates open. It's a slap in the face to those people going through the system and trying to do it the right way. There just isn't a simple solution.

Lack of respect? That's pretty much how America started. People got wind and came here in flocks.

When you're fighting for your family, red tape isn't a factor.

 

[randhail]

All I'm saying is that making a mad dash to the border in hordes isn't going to help them at all. It's just going to piss more people off that are already not the biggest supporters of illegal immigrants and make it harder on themselves.

For me this Teddy Roosevelt quote pretty much sums it up for me:

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

 

[Justin24]

Never heard that quote before. Very good one and true. I wish the Teddy or Franklin were our presidents today.

 

[BVS]

I agree with the Roosevelt quote, of course it's a little harder now than then to just move here and assimilate, but for the most part I agree with that quote.

 

[bonoman]

Illegal immigration costs Tax payers Billions of Dollars. in 1996 alone it costs 33 Billion dollars.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersf134

Peoples ID's are being stolen and used by illegal immigrants which hurt citizens of this country.

http://redtape.msnbc.com/2006/03/hidden_cost_of_.html

We need to enfore strict border policy's and get a guest worker program started. I have mentioned this before that we need a more secure border.

More info on how much it costs to school and treat illegals.

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=2537000&nav=DIH7Ssy8

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html

"Among the findings:

Illegal alien households are estimated to use $2,700 a year more in services than they pay in taxes, creating a total fiscal burden of nearly $10.4 billion on the federal budget in 2002."

And the job they do proping up failed American compainies and making the goods you buy less expensive...what price do you put on that?

 

[BluRmGrl]

Ok, here's my contribution to the soup:

I have the utmost respect and downright awe for ANYONE who works 70 hours a week for usually pathetic wages (by most American standards), often in jobs that are at the lowest end of the 'dignity spectrum', sending 90% of their take-home pay back to Chihuahua, Ecuador, San Salvador, where ever, to support a whole family of relatives - and that's what many of the Latin immigrants here in SE North Carolina are doing. My hat's off to them - I marvel at their drive & determination. I don't begrudge them or any other law-abiding soul the opportunity to come to the US & make a life for themselves.

I do, however, have a severe lack of tolerance for those who a)refuse to gain LEGAL access to the jobs, governmental programs, and other opportunities available here in the States; b) refuse to learn the generally accepted 'official' language (I realize the US doesn't have an actual 'official language', but that's another argument for another day!); c) disobey laws, rules and guidelines while using their immigrant status as an excuse/crutch as to why they should be allowed to get away with such behavior. The "I didn't know" defense - dammit, GET TO KNOW.

By the grace of God, I was born an American in the United States -I will likely never know a fraction of the hardships some of these folks have faced in their lives & I am painfully aware of that every time this discussion comes up. However, if for some reason, Americans starting crossing into the borders of Uzbhekistan in droves, should we expect them to start speaking American English so they could communicate with us? Overlook our illegal status in the country & allow us to stay because - Hey, we're already here... ? I don't think so.

As I said, I'm all for anyone who wants to come to the US to try & better themselves. But, by God, DO IT LEGALLY. Pay your taxes, learn the language, follow the laws of the land... that's all. Is that really asking so much?

 

[ljclary]

Illegal immigrants are, simply put, illegal. Something needs to be done to limit this from happening, and I agree that tighter restrictions need to be placed on employers with stiff penalties for employing illegals. As much as I am opposed to Bush, I have to agree something needs to be done about this illegal immigrant issue. I am tired of hearing about it on the news, I am tired of hearing it being discussed. I am tired of seeing tax payer money being wasted on this issue. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT NOW!

I am in agreement here. I usually do not post on this forum and I am sure will annoy people in doind so but this is a topic I feel very strongly about. I have worked in the restaurant business for 18 years and it amazes me how many illegal immigrants I have working with me. Everything from the dishwasher to waiter to food runner to chef. Quite honestly I do not see this one business surviving without them.

This being said my husband is a chef of 20 years and cannot find a job for more than $15 an hour because the latest Brazilian that has come to town (sorry not meaning to be offensive, where I am has seen a huge influx in the Brazilian population in the past few years) will take the same job for 10. Also more annoying to me as someone who works in my profession that does not get health insurance, it boils my blood that the dishwasher can go into a hospital with her sick kid and not be excpected to pay a dime but if I go they will charge me every penny and hunt me for life until I do so.

Also interesting enough many of my co-workers have said how much the prices have risen where they are from. This is because the American dollar is so great that the countries are price gouging because they know all their income is coming from America.

There is no easy answer to this question. Yes we are all immigrants and at one time "illiegals" (well my Mom is 100% native american but that is a whole nother can of worms) but this situation is out of control. Maybe the restaurants need to close, maybe easier laws need to be made but for sure-all people that live on our soil need to treated as all others. This meaning you need to be legal-have a SSN that is legit, pay your taxes, get registered to vote and stop draining money out of my pocket (and not for a minute to I believe in other wise)

America is the land of oppurtunity not the land of come and get it.

 

[ljclary]

opps sorry did not see the other thread

 

[yolland]

I just split all the recent posts off from the old (2005) thread that thrillme bumped and merged the results with iron horse's thread...just in case anyone's scratching their heads about the new sequence here...

 

[U2DMfan]

Multiple problems with no great solutions.
No real leadership on the issue, from anywhere.....

Where is the policy headed?

http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

just some polling FYI to show where the polticians will be headed, if they want to stay in office.........

It appears the majority of Americans have found an issue they can agree on.