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Old 07-03-2007, 06:17 PM   #31
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Originally posted by U2isthebest


I believe she was being sarcastic. She was basically trying to say "Praise the Lord" sarcastically that this guy has ruined his life, his wife, and his daughter's because of the teaching of the Ex gay movement or whatever they're calling it now. Sorry to speak for you joyful girl; I wasn't sure if you were still here! If I'm completely off,
You're close! This guy actually isn't part of any ex-gay brainwashing movement. He simply was afraid of getting AIDS in the early 80s and "decided" not to be gay anymore, and he identifies himself as a Christian. He is not on any crusade to make gays straight or anything (seeing as how it's been sooo successful for him and all...), nor does he even speak about his once very open gayness. He simply went back in the closet and closed the door, and lives a total lie.

The "Praise the Lord" comment was, yes, sarcastic, because in the article Diamond posted, the guy claims turning to God can make gays straight, and I'm saying yes, I've seen this up close and personal and um, sorry, it's a crock of shit. I knew him before, and I know him now, and he's as gay and closeted as the day is long. We're talking a particular kind of stereotypically gay. I mean, a mean flaming queen.
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Old 07-03-2007, 06:19 PM   #32
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Originally posted by MadelynIris


Although Christ didn't explicity come out against homosexuality, he did support the tenants of most of the OT.
And dispelled and counteracted many as well.

Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris

We all know that many writers/prophets of the OT explicitly came out against homosexuality.

Of course Paul, also supported these writers/prophets, and explicitly came out against homosexuality in the NT.

Here's a great website:

http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template...&ContentID=583
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Old 07-03-2007, 08:09 PM   #33
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What did you think of the article, diamond? I'm curious.

Glatze was quoted in passing in an article about gay youth issues in TIME a couple years back, which may or may not have foreshadowed his present discontents:
Quote:
Because he routinely sees young gays on MTV or even at school, a 14-year-old may now feel comfortable telling friends that he likes other boys, but that doesn't mean he is ready to enfold himself in a gay identity. "Today so many kids who are gay, they don't like Cher. They aren't part of the whole subculture," says Michael Glatze, 30, editor in chief of YGA magazine. "They feel like they belong in their faith, in their families."

"Increasingly, these kids are like straight kids," says Savin-Williams. "Straight kids don't define themselves by sexuality, even though sexuality is a huge part of who they are. Of course they want to have sex, but they don't say, 'It is what I am.'" He believes young gays are moving toward a "postgay" identity. "Just because they're gay, they don't have to march in a parade. Part of it is political. Part is personal, developmental."

The political part is what worries Glatze. "I don't think the gay movement understands the extent to which the next generation just wants to be normal kids. The people who are getting that are the Christian right," he says. Indeed, several of those I met at the Exodus event had come not because they thought it would make them straight or even because they are particularly fervent Christians. Instead, they were there because they find something empty about gay culture--a feeling that Exodus exploits with frequent declamations about gays' supposed promiscuity and intemperance. "I'm just not attracted to the gay lifestyle, toward gay people--I've never felt a kinship with them," says Manuel Lopez, a lapsed Catholic and University of Chicago grad student who went to the Exodus meeting. "There's a certain superficiality in gay attachments--musicals, fashion ... I do think it's a happier life being straight."
Personally, I've never known any gay people whose "attachments" were based on musicals, fashion and Cher--though I'm sure they exist; plenty of straight people's "attachments" seem to be based on mutual pop culture consumption of various kinds after all, so it'd only make sense. I don't see what that has to do with what kinds of bodies you're attracted to though.

The yearning to 'just be a normal kid' can be a horribly painful one (not least because it can be so chimerical, as 'abnormal' kids of many types can attest), but then part of growing up is coming to terms with which parts of yourself are worth feeling guilt over and which ones aren't. The basic fact of that will never change.

As far as the present article,
Quote:
We believe, under the influence of homosexuality, that lust is not just acceptable, but a virtue. But there is no homosexual "desire" that is apart from lust.

That's why homosexual sex – and all other lust-based sex – is never satisfactory: It's a neurotic process rather than a natural, normal one.

Homosexuality allows us to avoid digging deeper, through superficiality and lust-inspired attractions – at least, as long as it remains "accepted" by law.
OK...so he feels strongly that 'superficial, lust-inspired' attractions are bad for you and stunt your human development. I can understand that; that's something I practice in my own life, and while I'd hardly want to legislate it, I can certainly relate to why someone would feel that way. But to me this sounds more like an argument for more visibility, more support, and more honoring of all the longterm committed gay relationships that exist out there. Absolutely, why shouldn't religious gay people be able to realize 'love, honor, cherish and obey' in their own lives?

That said, I can't make heads or tails of what exactly he thinks a healthy sexual relationship is supposed to look like, or what precisely he takes 'lust' to consist of. Love and commitment are wonderful things, they can certainly make sexual relationships more fulfilling, but in and of themselves they don't make you horny. If and when he does get involved with a woman, if he thinks that "pure" love, deep regard for and commitment to her is somehow going to be all it takes to make things run smoothly in the bedroom--well, good luck with that. Or perhaps it's just a case for morally mandatory permanent celibacy--but then, talk about unnatural...
Quote:
People caught in the act would rather stay "blissfully ignorant" by silencing truth and those who speak it, through antagonism, condemnation and calling them words like "racist"
...which makes me wonder what other sorts of 'truths' he has in mind here.
Quote:
A huge and vital difference exists between superficial admiration – of yourself, or others – and integral admiration. In loving ourselves fully, we no longer need anything from the "outside" world of lustful desire, recognition from others, or physical satisfaction. Our drives become intrinsic to our very essence, unbridled by neurotic distractions.

Lust takes us out of our bodies, "attaching" our psyche onto someone else's physical form.

...our normal state, of being perfectly united in all things, and divides us, causing us to forever pine for an outside physical object that we can never possess. Homosexual people – like all people – yearn for the mythical true love, which does actually exist.
Alcibiades! Is that really you?
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Old 07-03-2007, 08:13 PM   #34
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According to article being gay has become passe.

dbs
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Old 07-03-2007, 08:19 PM   #35
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I didn't realize homosexuality was regarded as a fad. Whaddya know.
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Old 07-03-2007, 08:19 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by MadelynIris
Although Christ didn't explicity come out against homosexuality, he did support the tenants of most of the OT. We all know that many writers/prophets of the OT explicitly came out against homosexuality.

Of course Paul, also supported these writers/prophets, and explicitly came out against homosexuality in the NT.
False. Paul came out against the homosexual practices of that day. Today is a different type of homosexuality.
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Old 07-03-2007, 08:48 PM   #37
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I'm so befuddled by some of what's in this thread I don't even know how to respond.


Guess what folks the Bible is *gasp* not the literal truth!


I say that as a God loving Christian.
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Old 07-03-2007, 08:56 PM   #38
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Sure,
the bible is the tool for Genital Mutilation.

Sexuality is evil and must be repressed.

We need to have our sexuality circumcised,
cut out of our human bodies.
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Old 07-03-2007, 10:25 PM   #39
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Oh OK, I understand now. I thought the comment was sarcastic, but I just had to make sure.
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Old 07-03-2007, 10:50 PM   #40
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Yeah, I know someone who became straight, too. After leading an openly gay life for many years, AIDS and the Christian church scared the shit out of him. So he became straight. He married a woman and had a child. He hates his wife and women in general and never misses an opportunity to put her down in public. He's angry, hateful, resentful, critical, drinks too much, and goes to church on Sunday to repent. They've not shared a bed since their daughter was conceived (she's 16 now) and when you ask her what daddy does for a living she answers, "I don't know. Mom and I don't know. We never see him. He has some kind of secret life." They've been "together" now for 25 years. It's so beautiful how he was able to turn his life around. Praise the Lord.
Somehow I highly doubt he ever found God if he acts like that.
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Old 07-03-2007, 11:17 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
According to article being gay has become passe.

dbs
That should tell you how shite the article is...
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Old 07-04-2007, 01:11 AM   #42
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Somehow I highly doubt he ever found God if he acts like that.
That's what happens when people tell you that God can't be found with homosexuality...
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Old 07-04-2007, 01:39 AM   #43
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whatever makes him happy.
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Old 07-04-2007, 09:50 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26


That's what happens when people tell you that God can't be found with homosexuality...
Exactly. He cannot fully embrace a religion that would reject him for being who he really is, so he tries to be what they want him to be out of fear, and over time this makes a person a bit crazy.
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Old 07-04-2007, 10:43 AM   #45
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False. Paul came out against the homosexual practices of that day. Today is a different type of homosexuality
Ok, are you being sarcastic? How is it different?
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