MERGED--> He became straight + I despise... - Page 13 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-12-2007, 10:17 PM   #181
Blue Crack Addict
 
joyfulgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 16,615
Local Time: 03:41 PM
^ Truly.

Ormus
__________________

__________________
joyfulgirl is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:20 PM   #182
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 05:41 PM
Ormus
__________________

__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:32 PM   #183
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
2861U2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: watching the Cubs
Posts: 4,255
Local Time: 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Ormus


What? It's true. Here's the thing that many conservative Christians don't understand (or are intellectually incapable of understanding):

You don't set the rules.
Here's the thing that many non-Christians don't understand (or are intellectually incapable of understanding):

Christians aren't trying to set the rules. Show me where I'm wrong. I have a firmly rooted belief and if I see something that I disagree with, I'm going to say so. Excuse me if I have convictions. I'm not trying to change any rules by expressing my opinion.

Quote:
Here's where your logic falls apart. Just because science hasn't conclusively discovered the specific genes related to homosexuality doesn't mean that science isn't on strong footing. The evidence is strongly in its favor.

But even at that, "disagreeing" with a scientific stance with some holes in it does not logically mean reverting to a stance that has long since been rejected. Science and psychology have rejected the idea that homosexuality is some flimsy choice. So even if you take issue with the science, the fact that you have "chosen" to believe in discredited quackery does mean that you are, in fact, homophobic. No amount of wishful thinking or smilies is going to change the fact that your "disagreement" with homosexuality is based on nonsense.
Sorry, I don't buy that there is absolutely no "choosing to be" factor in homosexuality. I do not accept that it is 100% genetic or predetermined by science. That is nonsense.

The reason for my was this statement by phillyfan: "A complete lack of respect for a person based on those grounds is homophobic."

I agree with that statement, but I wonder if people here are trying to apply that statement to me and calling me homophobic. I am not. I disagree with being homosexual, but I do not completely judge the person based on their orientation. That is ridiculous. I know a few gays, and they are nice and caring and good people. You must think that because they are gay that I avoid them as much as I can and hate them because they are gay. That isnt true. I would never let one aspect of a person, whatever it is, decide my opinion of said person. Again, people are too eager to call someone a homophobe. A homophobe is someone who hates or fears gays, which, sorry, I do not.

A message to most of the people in this thread: I feel sorry for whoever you might encounter in your life who has different opinions than you. They're going to be called every name in the book, arent they?
__________________
2861U2 is online now  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:35 PM   #184
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 16,297
Local Time: 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2
I disagree with being homosexual
That's the crux of your problem.

Do you also disagree with gays and lesbians being given the 1000-odd benefits you have under the law that they currently do not?
__________________
anitram is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:35 PM   #185
She's the One
 
martha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Orange County and all over the goddamn place
Posts: 42,338
Local Time: 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2

A message to most of the people in this thread: I feel sorry for whoever you might encounter in your life who has different opinions than you. They're going to be called every name in the book, arent they?
Only if they're gay!
__________________
martha is online now  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:45 PM   #186
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2
Here's the thing that many non-Christians don't understand (or are intellectually incapable of understanding):

Christians aren't trying to set the rules. Show me where I'm wrong. I have a firmly rooted belief and if I see something that I disagree with, I'm going to say so. Excuse me if I have convictions. I'm not trying to change any rules by expressing my opinion.

Sorry, I don't buy that there is absolutely no "choosing to be" factor in homosexuality. I do not accept that it is 100% genetic or predetermined by science. That is nonsense.

The reason for my was this statement by phillyfan: "A complete lack of respect for a person based on those grounds is homophobic."

I agree with that statement, but I wonder if people here are trying to apply that statement to me and calling me homophobic. I am not. I disagree with being homosexual, but I do not completely judge the person based on their orientation. That is ridiculous. I know a few gays, and they are nice and caring and good people. You must think that because they are gay that I avoid them as much as I can and hate them because they are gay. That isnt true. I would never let one aspect of a person, whatever it is, decide my opinion of said person. Again, people are too eager to call someone a homophobe. A homophobe is someone who hates or fears gays, which, sorry, I do not.

A message to most of the people in this thread: I feel sorry for whoever you might encounter in your life who has different opinions than you. They're going to be called every name in the book, arent they?
You are homophobic. You do not respect that gays are who they are. You think they choose to sin. And it's all bullshit. Why? Because it's not a choice and because it's not a sin.

Guess what? I'm Christian. So throw that argument out the window.

Some Christians try to set the rules. Haven't you seen the legislation in attempt to keep them from getting marriage? That gives them legal benefits? That's trying to set the rules, buddy.

Irony in this statement by you:

"Sorry, I don't buy that there is absolutely no "choosing to be" factor in homosexuality. I do not accept that it is 100% genetic or predetermined by science. That is nonsense."

Your beliefs are nonsense, as Ormus said. It's based on a mix of misinterpretation, ignorance, and bigotry. And I also enjoy your belief that it is predetermined "by science." Acting like we believe science causes this!

The problem is that your bigoted and ignorant belief is keeping homosexuals from getting the rights of a straight person.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:49 PM   #187
War Child
 
Ormus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Frontios
Posts: 758
Local Time: 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2
Here's the thing that many non-Christians don't understand (or are intellectually incapable of understanding):

Christians aren't trying to set the rules. Show me where I'm wrong. I have a firmly rooted belief and if I see something that I disagree with, I'm going to say so. Excuse me if I have convictions. I'm not trying to change any rules by expressing my opinion.
Here's the thing:

I have done this repeatedly, not only in this thread, but in many threads before this. The problem is that you have already made up your mind, and no amount of logic, arguments, or even Biblical critical analysis has ever helped here.

So, at this point, I'm forced to say that this stance of yours amounts to bigotry. Thirty years of science, psychology, and psychiatry say that your "firmly rooted belief" is complete bunk. I'm sorry that that's not good enough for you.

Quote:
Sorry, I don't buy that there is absolutely no "choosing to be" factor in homosexuality. I do not accept that it is 100% genetic or predetermined by science. That is nonsense.
Based on what reasoning? Because, as I see it, there is no "reasoning" with your stance. You were told that gay people are "icky" by someone for no rational reason, and you "firmly" don't want to change your mind.

Quote:
A message to most of the people in this thread: I feel sorry for whoever you might encounter in your life who has different opinions than you. They're going to be called every name in the book, arent they?
Society has long determined that certain people's opinions are so far outside the realm of reality that they're worthy of scorn. Those few people who still believe that the Earth is flat? Scorn. People who think that young-Earth creationism is an "alternative" to evolution? Scorn. Those who believe that Jews kill and drink the blood of Muslim babies (the kind of things you literally see on Middle Eastern television even today)? Scorn. Those who believe that homosexuals are dirty, diseased hedonists who had overbearing mothers and weak fathers, and woke up one day to "choose" to be with the same-sex? Scorn.

This isn't the equivalent of "debating" whether Bush is the greatest president since Lincoln or the worst since Attila the Hun. I will vocally and strongly express my opinion; but politics are politics and that hasn't stopped me from being quite friendly with some Republicans. This subject, however, isn't debatable. The Earth is round. Evolution is a scientific theory, while creationism and intelligent design are not science, and, thus, are not worthy of being in science class. Jews are as capable of kindness and violence as any other member of humanity. And, most relevant to this thread, homosexuality is not a choice. There is no debate.
__________________
Ormus is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 10:57 PM   #188
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,700
Local Time: 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


Here's the thing that many non-Christians don't understand (or are intellectually incapable of understanding):


Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2

Christians aren't trying to set the rules. Show me where I'm wrong. I have a firmly rooted belief and if I see something that I disagree with, I'm going to say so. Excuse me if I have convictions. I'm not trying to change any rules by expressing my opinion.
Many have shown you. But you always seem to stick with your abysmal understanding of the Bible.

I've shown you before, but read this and try to DISCUSS it before posting you "opinion" again.

http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template...&ContentID=583

Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2

A message to most of the people in this thread: I feel sorry for whoever you might encounter in your life who has different opinions than you. They're going to be called every name in the book, arent they?
Wow, you are a judgemental one aren't you?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:13 PM   #189
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,238
Local Time: 04:41 PM
These should be melon posts.
__________________
Diemen is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:15 PM   #190
War Child
 
Ormus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Frontios
Posts: 758
Local Time: 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen
These should be melon posts.
I've actually sat down more than once to try and write a new thread as "melon," in commemoration of the 10,000th post and all. Part of the problem ends up being that I get so busy that I push it aside.

I think I'll try again this weekend. I'm certainly quite interested in using that name primarily again.
__________________
Ormus is offline  
Old 07-12-2007, 11:49 PM   #191
War Child
 
butter7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 785
Local Time: 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Have you guys seen this? He was on the Colbert Report the other night...

http://nymag.com/news/features/33520/
Hmmm... interesting, I heard some of these all through the years and this article combined nearly everything.

The only thing I would say is that the finger thing is wrong, at least to me. I got the lesbian woman's finger ratio but I'm straight.
__________________
butter7 is offline  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:14 AM   #192
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
AEON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Posts: 4,052
Local Time: 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Ormus


homosexuality is not a choice. There is no debate.
I haven't been joining the discussions much lately (mostly because of National Guard duties and other life things). And I've written on this topic WAY more than I've ever intended. While Irvine and Ormus/Melon have certainly opened my heart to their beliefs on this matter, they have not yet changed my mind as to whether or not homosexual behavior is immoral.

That being said, doesn't a selfproclaimed recovered homosexual, whether you like him or not, qualify as someone that can offer an opinion that the behavior is in fact - a choice? Doesn't the fact that he even wrote such an article prove there is a debate?
__________________
AEON is offline  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:19 AM   #193
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 30,343
Local Time: 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
Doesn't the fact that he even wrote such an article prove there is a debate?
No.
__________________
phillyfan26 is offline  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:26 AM   #194
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,700
Local Time: 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON


I haven't been joining the discussions much lately (mostly because of National Guard duties and other life things). And I've written on this topic WAY more than I've ever intended. While Irvine and Ormus/Melon have certainly opened my heart to their beliefs on this matter, they have not yet changed my mind as to whether or not homosexual behavior is immoral.

That being said, doesn't a selfproclaimed recovered homosexual, whether you like him or not, qualify as someone that can offer an opinion that the behavior is in fact - a choice? Doesn't the fact that he even wrote such an article prove there is a debate?
I'd like to know what you thought about the link I provided earlier...

As to whether this article proves there is debate? No. People of all walks can be brainwashed, can be made to feel guilt for who they are, it's very easy when you are the minority and powerless. The "brilliance" of brainwashing is that no matter what it is it gives you a sense of empowerment. The KKK may be a minority, but it gives its members power over others. How and why would you be brainwashed into a minority role that offers no power?
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:27 AM   #195
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AEON

That being said, doesn't a selfproclaimed recovered homosexual, whether you like him or not, qualify as someone that can offer an opinion that the behavior is in fact - a choice? Doesn't the fact that he even wrote such an article prove there is a debate?
Has he said he has heterosexual feelings and desires?

or is he just repressing his sexual desires?


If one represses their heterosexual desires and does not have sex
would you say
they went gay?
__________________

__________________
deep is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com