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View Poll Results: Who will you be voting for, for US President?
Kerry 171 66.02%
Bush 74 28.57%
None. I'm a loser and won't vote. 4 1.54%
Other. I'm a loser too and would prefer to waste my vote on someone else in this tight race. 3 1.16%
Undecided between Bush and Kerry. 7 2.70%
Voters: 259. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 08-29-2004, 04:19 PM   #91
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Sting2, yes I would be interested in where you get your statistics. I had a source, and you listed quite a few persuasive statistics, but they're meaningless unless you have proof from neutral sources.

The goal of the Iraq "war" was to secure Americans freedoms. This conflict has created more hostility from all corners of the world, because everyone who knows the facts know it was primarily a war for oil that benefits a small percentage of wealthy American's interests.

Why protest during the convention? I think the answer lies in why President Bush won't conduct a live interview, why he won't confront his critics or allow tough questions to be asked during press conferences and rallies. If the enemy ignores you, why not knock on their front door, ehh? If Bush answered the questions the American people are asking, perhaps he wouldn't be harassed to this degree.

By the way, I think this protest is beautiful and inspiring! Amen! I can't believe they've been passing Madison Square Garden for the past 4 1/2 hours and they're still coming! Holy Cow!
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Old 08-29-2004, 05:31 PM   #92
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Sting, that is not the way we lefties do politics. We protest during the event, so that the people who are there will know that there are other opinions out there. It's like group therapy, you are protesting in their presence. That's the way it's always been done, and always will. The press is there, the Republicans are there, and it's the Big Apple, and people have been organizing and working on these demonstrations for months. Some of the protest leaders, like Jesse Jackson, are connected with the Democratic Party. Others are members of peace groups from around the U.S. As a veteran protestor, I know that you protest against people, and big shots like the President-whose-policies-you-don't-like are huge targets. The communication element is being there vis-a-vis the people you're doing the protesting against.
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Old 08-29-2004, 07:16 PM   #93
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CNN is reporting that about 400,000 demonstrators showed up for the march this afternoon! They'd been expecting 250,000, my goodness, the biggest demonstration I've ever been in was 4,000 right here in Birmingham when we protested a killing.
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:16 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
Sting2, yes I would be interested in where you get your statistics. I had a source, and you listed quite a few persuasive statistics, but they're meaningless unless you have proof from neutral sources.

The goal of the Iraq "war" was to secure Americans freedoms. This conflict has created more hostility from all corners of the world, because everyone who knows the facts know it was primarily a war for oil that benefits a small percentage of wealthy American's interests.

Why protest during the convention? I think the answer lies in why President Bush won't conduct a live interview, why he won't confront his critics or allow tough questions to be asked during press conferences and rallies. If the enemy ignores you, why not knock on their front door, ehh? If Bush answered the questions the American people are asking, perhaps he wouldn't be harassed to this degree.

By the way, I think this protest is beautiful and inspiring! Amen! I can't believe they've been passing Madison Square Garden for the past 4 1/2 hours and they're still coming! Holy Cow!
I get my economic statistics primarily from 3 area's.

1) Macroeconomics: Principles, Problems, and Policies
Thirteenth Edition
Authored by:
Campbell R. McConnell (Professor of Economics, University of Nebraska)
Stanley L. Brue (Professor of Economics, Pacific Lutheran University)
McGraw-Hill, INC. Copyright 1996

This book has a wide range of economic statistics for the United States for the years 1929 all the way to 1994.

2) The World Book Ecyclopedia publishes an annual Yearbook every year that has a substantial amount of statistics on all countries around the world as well as the key economic indicators for the United States. I often turn to these annual volumes to fill in the statistics from 1994 up to last year.

3) For the most recent economic statistics as well as comparisons with other countries, the Economist Magazine that comes out every week as these figures in the back. Economic statistics, on unemployment, inflation, etc are compiled on a monthly basis.

4) The United Nations "Development Reports" at http://hdr.undp.org/ have all kinds of statistics for virtually every country in the world including its annual ranking for standard of living.


Oh and for the Herbert Hoover years that you claim are comparitive to the current economic conditions under George Bush lets look at the facts:

Unemployment: Hoover 24.9% Bush 5.5%

GDP Growth: Hoover minus 28.5%(the reduction in real GDP from 1929 to 1933)

Bush plus 4.8% ( the GDP growth rate for the 2nd quarter of 2004)

Inflation: minus 5.1%(Deflation) Bush 3%

Deflation is the opposite of inflation but is potentially more serious than inflation.



The United States and other member states of the United Nations have been involved for the past 12 years in attempt to get Saddam to fully comply with 17 United Nations Resolutions as well as the UN 1991 Gulf War Ceacefire agreement that authorized the use of military force against Saddam if he failed to meet the conditions and requirments of the above resolutions and ceacefire agreement.

Saddam NEVER verifiably disarmed of all WMD and failed to comply with a single UN resolution in regards to other matters as well. Sanctions, a weapons embargo, diplomacy, limited military action, had all failed achieve the requirments of the UN resolutions which included having Saddam verifiably disarmed.

Do to the impact on the security of the region and the world, and the failure of alternative means to resolve the situation, military action to resolve the issues became a necessity.

It is a fact that the Planet heavily relies on energy from the Persian Gulf Region. The Planet cannot afford to have its current energy supplies threatened with siezure or Sabotage. If such threats were to materialize the resulting situation would make the Great Depression seem like a picnic.

The abundent supply and free flow of oil, from the Persian Gulf, drives down the price of energy and benefits the poorest people in society the most! The Oil from the Persian Gulf keeps the price of energy down significantly and the people that benefit the most from low cost for energy are the people that have trouble paying for gas or heating their home!

Several Oil companies here in the United States would actually benefit from Persian Gulf Oil being reduced or taken off the market entirely. Supply and competition keep the price of energy low. Average people benefit as well as the economy when this happens to its greatest effect, not the oil companies or rich people in Washington. They generally like to see higher prices.



I actually do find your answer on why people are protesting at the convention to this degree to be a good and interesting one. I will acknowledge that the President has had less press conferences and interviews than recent presidents. Its still an open question though if the liberal left would be easier on him if he was in fact more open to a degree of their liking.

The people marching in New York City are not representive of most Americans and most would never even considering voting for a Republican. This is the liberal wing of the democratic party and if their not careful, they can hurt Kerry's chances of being elected president.
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:18 PM   #95
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Amazing! We now have 31 people at FYM(the most unfriendly place for George Bush) voting for him in the poll. Exactly 33.33% at this point, 1 in 3 people.

I didn't think there were more than 10 people at FYM that would vote for Bush and now we have 31 and counting!
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:25 PM   #96
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I wonder how many votes (on both sides) are alters.
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Old 08-30-2004, 02:56 AM   #97
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Thats a little bit of tinfoil hat territory if you ask me, Republican cabal secretly rigging all of the voting machines to tip the election in Bush's favour?
I can only judge by impression, and when I look at how hard the republicans have been pushing to get these machines put in, and then I hear that they're sending out mail telling people to watch their mailbox for absentee ballot forms (urging them to sign and return them) I have to wonder what's going on.

Regardless of party, I find it distasteful that these machines leave no paper trail or way to verify results. What if someone not affiliated with either party decided to tamper with the election results? How would any of us know?
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Old 08-31-2004, 01:00 AM   #98
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Amazing new polling news! GALLUP is now reporting that Bush is now in a 47% to 47% tie for PENNSYLVANIA! Other polls are now showing Bush with a lead. This is the first time this has happened in this election year and this a State that Al Gore one in 2000. If John Kerry does not when Pennsylvania, there is no way he can win this election. Pennsylvania is worth 21 electoral votes. If John Kerry cannot win Pennsylvania, there is no way he will be able to win Ohio or Florida.

It will be interesting to see what the effect the Republican convention has on these new poll numbers.
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Old 08-31-2004, 09:24 AM   #99
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Sting, every poll I know of has has Pennsylvania in a toss-up status for months. In fact, it's the only thing that Rasmussen and Zogby agree on. In any case Senator Kerry's lead there has generally been within the margin for error. One thing that polls don't tell you is how much support for a candidate is "soft", or potentially transient, or "hard", which means it's not going anywhere. This is why I really don't give a damn what the polls are saying now. The election is in two months, not next week.
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Old 08-31-2004, 06:00 PM   #100
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Sting, every poll I know of has has Pennsylvania in a toss-up status for months. In fact, it's the only thing that Rasmussen and Zogby agree on. In any case Senator Kerry's lead there has generally been within the margin for error. One thing that polls don't tell you is how much support for a candidate is "soft", or potentially transient, or "hard", which means it's not going anywhere. This is why I really don't give a damn what the polls are saying now. The election is in two months, not next week.
This is the first time EVER that Bush has polled higher than Kerry in Pennsylvania. I think that is very significant. A lot of the polls just a few months ago were giving Kerry a 10 point lead.

I'd also would like to point out now that electoral-vote.com is reporting that Bush is ahead with 280 electoral votes to Kerry's 242 and 17 electoral votes are tied. All of this new data conducted prior to the convention.

Bush is in an excellant position to widen his lead with the convention. Kerry will have no similar public opportunity to cut into that lead.

The election may not be today, but you would have to argue that as of today, Bush has the advantage.
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Old 08-31-2004, 07:00 PM   #101
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I'll say it again, Bush can be behind in the polls 30% and still win.
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Old 08-31-2004, 07:57 PM   #102
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No, the polls aren't looking great for Kerry now, and most likely Bush will have a lead coming out of the convention. The Kerry campaign has announced a $45 million advertisement buy, to coincide with the end of the GOP convention. I'm not really discouraged because it's after a really bad period for Kerry, what with the Swift Boat controversy and such, and we've still got the traditional fall campaign season ahead of us, complete with the debates and everything. In any campaign there are ebbs and flows, as they say, and in the end it plays itself out according to various and sundry circumstances. Two months is a long time in presidential politics. In just about every other democracy, an entire campaign is a matter of weeks. Weeks matter in presidential politics, too. This game's not over. There are jobs reports and developments in Iraq and such that will also determine things. This is history in the making, and usually history is pretty chaotic stuff. I should know, I'm a trained historian!
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:26 PM   #103
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The polls in Canada were so far off base that the analysts were literally shocked as the votes came in. It was supposed to be tight between the Liberals and Conservatives, and the Conservatives were actually leading in the weeks coming up to the election, yet did disappointingly the night of.

That said, I do believe Bush will win the election. Maybe not in a landslide, but he will win again. And I also think there are many on the left who truly feel that it is better to let this go and grab 2008.
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:54 PM   #104
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If Bush wins....

Clinton in 08?

Now that would be interesting.

BTW... I dont mean Bill.
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Old 08-31-2004, 10:58 PM   #105
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If Bush wins....

Clinton in 08?

Now that would be interesting.

BTW... I dont mean Bill.
I think you're right on the money there.

Personally, I think the conniption fits that 90% of the right would go into, combined with the instantaneous frothing at the mouth would be hilarious to watch.
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