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Old 11-08-2005, 10:24 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by lady luck



We've been already experimenting troubles with the Muslim community and I was shocked when I heard the comments Italian have for migrants... things that sometimes make me feel ashame of being Italian...



Are you referring to the closing of the Muslim School in Milan?
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Old 11-08-2005, 10:36 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Yeah, racism is also going strong in Italy. I realized that in Milan a couple of years ago.. however, I think my country still beats y´all in terms of racism and xenophobia. Where´s Bossi at with the Lega, by the way? Always disliked this guy..


I must say that it´s unfortunately true. Figure it out, many in the north of Italy can´t even stand the southern italians...............
We have big troubles under this aspect, in Italy an obscure racism is rising on and on, and it hurts maybe even more than clear racism...............this is painful.
But the problem is that this is happening in many other nations, too. I never would have thought that racism could arrive today, 2006 (f.cking 2006!!!), at a so high degree..................


Bossi looks like quiet sleepy now, he had a heart attack and almost died, but he´s still there, although he´s no more a big problem. Oh, I remember certain filthy speeches of him..........

Who scare might be his collaborators now, as long as they stay at the government..................but they will soon lose
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Old 11-08-2005, 11:13 AM   #108
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a French Intifada?

so far, it appears as if most media outlets are portraying the riots across France as a reaction to feelings of outsiderness, disillusionment, and disengagement from the state. however, some writers disagree, and post the following:

[q]The disturbances are thus being portrayed as race riots caused by official discrimination and insensitivity. But this is a gross misreading of the situation. It is far more profound and intractable. What we are seeing is, in effect, a French intifada: an uprising by French Muslims against the state.

When the police tried to take back the streets, they were driven out with the demand that they leave what the protesters called the ‘occupied territories’. And far from the claim that the disturbances have been caused by French policy of segregating Muslims into ghettoes, this is a war being waged for separate development.

Some Muslims have even called for the introduction of the ancient Ottoman ‘millet’ system of autonomous development for different communities.

The director of the Great Mosque of Paris, Dalil Boubakeur, has previously suggested that France should be regarded as a ‘house of covenant’, by which he appears to mean that France should enter into an agreement with its Muslims to grant them autonomy within the state.

http://www.melaniephillips.com/artic...es/001475.html

[/q]
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Old 11-08-2005, 11:18 AM   #109
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Dread has commented on the level of organization seen by the rioting groups. This certainly adds a dimension that does not fit the standard "violence stems from poverty" model.
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Old 11-08-2005, 11:25 AM   #110
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An intifada - I hope not.

It is disconcerting that it seems to have affected geographically diverse locations. When race riots have occured in Britain, they have usually been restricted to specific locales.
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Old 11-08-2005, 11:33 AM   #111
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I think this could in fact turn into an intifadah of some sort. Unfortunately, people are going to allign themselves with people who they feel understands them. Radicalisation is easiest amongs people who feel mistreated or misunderstood. Let's hope everyone can come to their senses before this gets worse.

Why not just post this in the other thread btw?
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Old 11-08-2005, 11:35 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
It is disconcerting that it seems to have affected geographically diverse locations. When race riots have occured in Britain, they have usually been restricted to specific locales.
This is the most worrying aspect of the troubles thus far for me. I wonder how much of it is just spontaneous imitation or if there is a degree of organisation behind it all.

The most recent riots in the UK were confined to a relatively small area in Birmingham and things have seemed to calm down there. Although that was more a matter of black/asian animosity toward each other so there are only limited comparisons to make with what's happening in France.
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Old 11-08-2005, 01:44 PM   #113
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Villepin has imposed the curfew law:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4416728.stm

Quote:
The move, announced by interior minister Nicolas Sarkozy, allows local authorities to impose curfews and lets police perform raids without warrants.
--------------------------------------------------
Curfew powers were invoked under a 1955 law and it is the first time it has been implemented in mainland France.
And he's looking into improving social conditions:

Quote:
Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin later outlined to MPs an accompanying programme to improve social conditions.

Measures include a jobs programme and funding for teaching in deprived areas.

An agency will be set up with the aim of combating racial discrimination.



I think its going to take a lot more than providing jobs and teaching to ease any tensions. Distrust would remain for a very long time, even if things do improve for the immigrant communities.
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Old 11-08-2005, 02:03 PM   #114
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It's sad when it apparently takes riots of this scale to get governments to recognize the needs of minorities.
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Old 11-08-2005, 02:26 PM   #115
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In the process of tossing more money at the situation, they may have missed the real problem.
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Old 11-08-2005, 02:40 PM   #116
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Which is?
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Old 11-08-2005, 03:49 PM   #117
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speaking of racism , anybody saw what happened near red square in Moscow , russia .
national holiday turned into nazi parade
what a shame


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Old 11-08-2005, 04:02 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth
Which is?
Not yet fully resolved.

There is another thread which speaks of a possible intifada. The apparent high level of coordination in the rioting suggests planning by participants - not a simple expression of frustration.

This does not fall neatly into the "poverty breeds violence" model.
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Old 11-08-2005, 07:44 PM   #119
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This Melanie Philips.. I bothered to read the whole fucking piece of crap she fabricated. I don´t take people serious who write racist stuff like:

"For more than twenty years France’s Muslim areas have been out of control. Indeed, they only turned into Muslim ghettoes in the first place because Muslim violence and harassment forced everyone else out."

"Banning the hijab (Islamic headscarf) in schools represented a flickering of the old national certainty as France sniffed the danger that had arisen in its midst. But it was too little, and maybe too late."

"The warning for us from the disturbing events in France could not be clearer. We must end the ruinous doctrine of multiculturalism and reassert British identity and British values"

Her self description is: "Styled a conservative by her opponents, she prefers to think of herself as defending authentic liberal values against the attempt to destroy western culture from within."

Congrats, Lady. You´re singling out 14-16 year old kids who are totally disillusioned because of said disengagement and racism of the French government. The protestors, as to my knowledge and apart from unconfirmed stories, haven´t killed anyone; they crash with the police for sure, but you know, for 2 weeks of riots the "collateral damage" is surprisingly low. Apparently, word is out amongst the protestors that people are not to be harmed.

Now what this journalist does is sitr up negative emotions and equalling juvenile outsiders with terrorists that plant bombs. It is irresponsible and fuels the fire. There is no research, and opinions about an intifada are based on vague assumptions about what certain people in certain communities say. Apart from that, I have read no other article that says that the youngsters are "claiming their own territory".

If we compare and throw assumptions around: why not compare the recent riots on France with the riots of African-Americans in the end of the 60s in America. Or more actual, certain streets in LA belong to certain gangs too. Would anyone speak of an intifada of the African-Americans in that respect?

No. But the "journalist" Melanie Philips.. (ehm journalist? Daily Mail.. excuse me) can afford to fuel the fire and get away with it.
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Old 11-08-2005, 07:51 PM   #120
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I tend to agree with hiphop.

And even if this is an attempt to start an uprising amongst the poor and African/Arab communities in France, where is the faith in the French government to handle the situation?

An uprising can only succeed if the vast majority of people it is targeted to support it.

Maybe some of us need to watch the movie "The Battle of Algiers" or read Frantz Fanon's "The Wretched of the Earth" to TRULY understand what is motivating the uprisings in France.
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