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Old 11-09-2005, 04:11 PM   #151
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i've just checked your link yolland, this map is correct but that's definitely not the one they showed last night on TV.
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Old 11-09-2005, 05:30 PM   #152
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yeah things can differ and you should all be careful with what you hear or read.
true dat.
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Old 11-10-2005, 01:29 AM   #153
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


. the riots are caused by juveniles who are the 2nd or third generation there. often, they have been born in France. Still they live in the same bad cionditions they had when their parents arrived! .
Hiphop,

Did you miss my last post ( population control related). If the parents were not sure that they could give their kids good education, good behaviour, the decency to obey laws, why were they born in the 1st place. Before you jump into conclusion, I have exactly the same feeling for poor and unemployed youth ( especially those who riot or are agressive) here or for that matter anywhere.

They will tell you " Kids are given by God automatically ". The word "God" is grossly misused - all the time - eveywhere I know how kids are born

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Old 11-10-2005, 01:53 AM   #154
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Yeah especially if he´s been living in France all his life and if he´s about 16 yrs old. He should send himself back home, jump the next ship, leave his family in Paris behind and go back to Morocco
dont you think thats better than rioting.
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Old 11-10-2005, 04:31 AM   #155
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Originally posted by AcrobatMan


dont you think thats better than rioting.
no but I think he has the right to stay in France, and his new home country shouldve offered more possibilities to him in the first place.

I also think that seperating families is an awful thing. m asking you how you want to enforce this. You want to take the 14 or 16 year old kids from the street, put em in the next truck drive them to the airport and send them straight into a country where they dont know anybody? You think this would have a positive effect?

We´re not talking about singular persons rioting, we´re talking about thousands.

Im excusing violence just like you, but until now nobody has replied to me:

what would the alternative be?

now, the whole world was listening to them. now, politicians also talk about social changes, acknowledge they have to do something. they see they have made a mistake.

how could that have been accomplished without the riots? in your opinion, Acrobat, they should have just stayed quiet to choke in the dirt?
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Old 11-10-2005, 04:45 AM   #156
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Originally posted by AcrobatMan


Hiphop,

Did you miss my last post ( population control related). If the parents were not sure that they could give their kids good education, good behaviour, the decency to obey laws, why were they born in the 1st place. Before you jump into conclusion, I have exactly the same feeling for poor and unemployed youth ( especially those who riot or are agressive) here or for that matter anywhere.
I think maybe because they wanted a family of their own ??

I really fail to see how you want to enforce population control. I also asked you if you thought the Chinese system made any sense., you haven´t replied to me.

Basically, if Im not misunderstanding you, you are for population control by state.

Hey, when I am poor, I will think twice about getting kids. But anyway, if they get five, eight, ten kids, how can anyone forbid that? How can anyone critisize their decision?

The state is responsible too for giving them enough chances - not only the parents. See, Acrobat, we are talking about a rich nation. A first world nation. not a banana republic where you don´t expect the corrupt politicians to change anything. Hell, for what are the people paying taxes?

Instead of the argument "dont get so many kids" I say "you should have the choice to get as many kids as you want, and they all have the right on freedom, education and a job just as much as every other french juvenile has".

If you send them back to where their parents came from, you are executing the claims of right-wing racists all over Europe. They want to do that. Its them who use slogans like "send this scum back where they belong to" etc.


As to your population control policies, I am waiting for the reply on how you want to enforce those.
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Old 11-10-2005, 07:25 AM   #157
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Sorry hiphop,

I appreciate you sensitivities. I know what you do and how you feel for people on the streets. I really think that is noble & emotional.

But to expect everyone else to do what you do is not fair. People has the right not to donate, has the right not to be compassionate..not to be emotional, not to be spiritual..the right to be practical. the right to live without riots.

I can counter-argue with everything u said but i cant change u just as u cant change me.

You can call me racist - I will be least bothered because I am not a racist . I have respect for what people are and what people do...and I just dont care about color or race or creed or sex or age.

Acrobat
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:21 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan


not the best of adjectives...i am imagining green and yellow people

i seriously dont understand what colored mean.

someone help me


Don´t take her wrong, in Italy the adjective colored is used, it has abosolutely no racial discrimination, maybe in english it doesn´t sound good. But actually, I found on the dictionaire that there´s a "coloured people" definition.................


Who knows.....
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:26 AM   #159
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Acrobat, I'm going to press you on Stephan's question here, because you're dancing on it, but it goes to the heart of what you've said.

Yes or no: do you support gov'tl population control? If not, how to you plan to bring about this utopian world where only parents who are certain they can do a good job have kids? If yes, for that matter, how do your reconcile that with the desire you've expressed in other posts for other minimal government?
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:35 AM   #160
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So imagine two French people, one is a second or third generation immigrant and one 'native' (due to lack of a better word). They both are born there and have the exact same legal status of French citizen, yet one guy would get 2 months in prison for riotting and the other gets deported out of the country. How exactly is this not racist?

And how do they plan on doing this? You can't just send people to a strange country just because their grandparents used to live there and, possibly with the exception of the Moroccan people, most of them only have a French passport they aren't a citizen of whatever country they are sent to. You think any country is going to welcome them with open arms and give them a legal status just because the French government wants them to?
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:55 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally posted by babyman


Don´t take her wrong, in Italy the adjective colored is used, it has abosolutely no racial discrimination, maybe in english it doesn´t sound good. But actually, I found on the dictionaire that there´s a "coloured people" definition.................


Who knows.....
Thanks baby I found it too.. My english is weak
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:57 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally posted by AcrobatMan


Thanks baby I found it too.. My english is weak



No, it´s not..............


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Old 11-10-2005, 09:04 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
But anyway, if they get five, eight, ten kids, how can anyone forbid that? How can anyone critisize their decision?
Forbid - no.

Criticize - absolutely.

Are you seriously suggesting that we no-one can criticize people who have large families that they cannot support?

What happened to personal responsibility in all of this.

I think it's damnably irresponsible to have large families in an age such as this. Governments should intervene by making contraceptives available .
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Old 11-10-2005, 09:05 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
[B]
Yes or no: do you support gov'tl population control?
No


Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling

If not, how to you plan to bring about this utopian world where only parents who are certain they can do a good job have kids?
I have not thought about it. Any parents who are producing kids without planning are doing wrong. Please dont call me racist for this.
Thanks I appreciate it
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Old 11-10-2005, 09:08 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrTeeth
So imagine two French people, one is a second or third generation immigrant and one 'native'
Ask both guys..

"Are you french".

I am sure you will get different answer and there is where the difference is.

Btw I never said - deport them forcibily...I said if they find the culture of their adopted too alien, if they have problem integrating in the other country, my personal advice to them is to go to their country of origin.
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