MERGED--> Face the facts Hillary + Desperate Clinton Danger to Party - Page 3 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-09-2008, 10:03 AM   #31
Blue Crack Distributor
 
Headache in a Suitcase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Stateless
Posts: 56,424
Local Time: 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Carek1230


What scares me and is currently preventing me from casting a vote his way is that he just doesn't seem to have the complete "walk the walk talk the talk" in Experience, not as much as I feel Hillary has. Not meaning to start a huge debate here, just my opinions. Obama is a great motivational speaker, don't get me wrong. He can move people and bring them together. He is very intelligent. I just feel he falls short in the experience category. He doesn't have enough political experience under his belt. Maybe I would not feel so scared if I knew who his running mate/VP would be. I just feel the position of the President of the USA requires someone who can do more than talk his/her way through issues & motivate people with great speeches and promising great ideas.

On the flip side I have my reservations about Hillary also. But she's been in the political arena for many more years than Barrack albeit mostly support or back-ground positions, like First Lady. But she's lived in the White House, she's lived in a Governor's mansion as well. And she has her own legal and political career under her belt. Again, I'd like to know who her running mate/VP would be. I think Hillary is very tough and she's got Bill who I think despite his personal embarrassment while in office, by her side is a great asset.

No way will I vote for McCain.

That's my dilemma.
how exactly does being first lady make her more qualified to be president than obama? is the wife of a great veteran pilot more qualified to fly a plane than a guy who's only been flying for a few years? i don't get this whole "she was the first lady, she's qualified" argument.
__________________

__________________
Headache in a Suitcase is online now  
Old 05-09-2008, 10:33 AM   #32
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2democrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: England by way of 'Murica.
Posts: 22,140
Local Time: 03:23 PM
If you look at the mechanics of the campaign, he is practicing exactly what he preaches. The way it is entirely grassroots is change in itself, the fact that the average donation is $96 from average Janes and Joes, that is the change. We are already seeing it in his campaign.

As for experience, I have banged my head over and over. Historically, there is little to no correlation between the experience of a candidate and how well they did as president. I even found a link where historians had ranked the presidents and listed years of experience, and the best presidents in some cases had a lot of experience, in others had relatively little. Same for the worst presidents, some had a lot, some had a little. There really is no relation.

That being said, if it's really experience that worries you, look at Obama's entire life. He is a person of the world. Not only can he relate to struggling Americans, but he also understands international relations because he's been there, he's not an ethnocentric American. He understands how the world works. If you want to talk about just elected experience, remember, he was elected before Hillary.

What do you think he's going to do? Curl up in the fetal position if things start getting bad? Get trigger happy? Or, as he's done on the campaign trail, when things get tough, remains calm cool and collected. Just what we need in the White House.
__________________

__________________
U2democrat is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 10:56 AM   #33
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,493
Local Time: 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
If you look at the mechanics of the campaign, he is practicing exactly what he preaches. The way it is entirely grassroots is change in itself, the fact that the average donation is $96 from average Janes and Joes, that is the change. We are already seeing it in his campaign.

As for experience, I have banged my head over and over. Historically, there is little to no correlation between the experience of a candidate and how well they did as president. I even found a link where historians had ranked the presidents and listed years of experience, and the best presidents in some cases had a lot of experience, in others had relatively little. Same for the worst presidents, some had a lot, some had a little. There really is no relation.

That being said, if it's really experience that worries you, look at Obama's entire life. He is a person of the world. Not only can he relate to struggling Americans, but he also understands international relations because he's been there, he's not an ethnocentric American. He understands how the world works. If you want to talk about just elected experience, remember, he was elected before Hillary.

What do you think he's going to do? Curl up in the fetal position if things start getting bad? Get trigger happy? Or, as he's done on the campaign trail, when things get tough, remains calm cool and collected. Just what we need in the White House.



sounds like somebody's been doin' some learnin' while in college.

great post.

__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 05-09-2008, 01:31 PM   #34
War Child
 
Butterscotch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 716
Local Time: 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


how exactly does being first lady make her more qualified to be president than obama? is the wife of a great veteran pilot more qualified to fly a plane than a guy who's only been flying for a few years? i don't get this whole "she was the first lady, she's qualified" argument.
Very true, it bugged me all along that she claimed experience when really it was her husband's. Could anybody else put down their spouse's work history on their resume and expect to get hired? She's no more qualified than Obama.
__________________
Butterscotch is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 01:51 PM   #35
Blue Crack Addict
 
U2Fanatic4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: nowhere..........man
Posts: 20,254
Local Time: 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch


Very true, it bugged me all along that she claimed experience when really it was her husband's. Could anybody else put down their spouse's work history on their resume and expect to get hired? She's no more qualified than Obama.

thank you.. People just don't seem to get that... As was mentioned being a first lady does not count as years in your political career. Yes, they do some work (she has when she was first lady) but not on the scale of the President or even a politician IMO.

also good post Laura! well said and well researched, the girl knows her stuff thats why she is going to skool to be edaumacated...
__________________
U2Fanatic4ever is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 03:04 PM   #36
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,016
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch


Very true, it bugged me all along that she claimed experience when really it was her husband's. Could anybody else put down their spouse's work history on their resume and expect to get hired?
I don't feel like defending Hillary, but yes, being a First Lady must be one of the only ways to get some sort of idea what it is like to be the president of the USA without actually being the president of the USA

this does not make her experienced though

while typing this I noticed how logical that seems
__________________
“Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.”
~Frank Zappa
Salome is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 05:28 PM   #37
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat
If you look at the mechanics of the campaign, he is practicing exactly what he preaches. The way it is entirely grassroots is change in itself, the fact that the average donation is $96 from average Janes and Joes, that is the change. We are already seeing it in his campaign.

As for experience, I have banged my head over and over. Historically, there is little to no correlation between the experience of a candidate and how well they did as president. I even found a link where historians had ranked the presidents and listed years of experience, and the best presidents in some cases had a lot of experience, in others had relatively little. Same for the worst presidents, some had a lot, some had a little. There really is no relation.

That being said, if it's really experience that worries you, look at Obama's entire life. He is a person of the world. Not only can he relate to struggling Americans, but he also understands international relations because he's been there, he's not an ethnocentric American. He understands how the world works. If you want to talk about just elected experience, remember, he was elected before Hillary.

What do you think he's going to do? Curl up in the fetal position if things start getting bad? Get trigger happy? Or, as he's done on the campaign trail, when things get tough, remains calm cool and collected. Just what we need in the White House.
Very well said.

I always find the lack of experience argument a little suspect. It's not like he'll hold the position in isolation, he'll have a whole host of aides and advisors. All presidents depend heavily on their inner circle like this, regardless of how much experience they have.

As well, it's pretty clear that he's intelligent and capable of reasoned, nuanced thinking. That's more than can be said for your current president.


Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
I don't feel like defending Hillary, but yes, being a First Lady must be one of the only ways to get some sort of idea what it is like to be the president of the USA without actually being the president of the USA

this does not make her experienced though

while typing this I noticed how logical that seems

Exactly. I don't know how people can deny that Hillary didn't learn a thing or two as First Lady. Short of actually holding the position yourself or being in the inner circle of a sitting president, I can't imagine a better way of gaining the knowledge and perspective that she must have gotten through the experience. This holds especially true for someone like her, who had/has political aspirations of her own.
__________________
VintagePunk is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 07:08 PM   #38
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 2,451
Local Time: 09:23 AM
Desperate Clinton is Danger to the Party

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...danger_to.html
__________________
Harry Vest is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 08:06 PM   #39
War Child
 
Butterscotch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 716
Local Time: 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
I don't feel like defending Hillary, but yes, being a First Lady must be one of the only ways to get some sort of idea what it is like to be the president of the USA without actually being the president of the USA

this does not make her experienced though

while typing this I noticed how logical that seems
So, shall Laura Bush run next time? Barbara Bush?
__________________
Butterscotch is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 08:15 PM   #40
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Posts: 2,451
Local Time: 09:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch


So, shall Laura Bush run next time? Barbara Bush?
EXACTLY!!!
__________________
Harry Vest is offline  
Old 05-09-2008, 08:22 PM   #41
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Harry Vest


EXACTLY!!!
Please.

Barbara was a wife and mother, Laura an elementary school teacher and a librarian. While they did have their pet causes as First Ladies neither of them have shown any political aspirations of their own. Hillary hardly compares with the two of them.
__________________
VintagePunk is offline  
Old 05-10-2008, 12:09 PM   #42
you are what you is
 
Salome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 22,016
Local Time: 04:23 PM
I don't think I ever said that Hillary is the perfect candidate because she was the First Lady
I just pointed out that I do think it's fair to guess that she has more of an idea what it's like to be the President of the USA than most other people

but rant away
__________________
“Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.”
~Frank Zappa
Salome is offline  
Old 05-10-2008, 02:50 PM   #43
War Child
 
Butterscotch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 716
Local Time: 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by VintagePunk


Please.

Barbara was a wife and mother, Laura an elementary school teacher and a librarian. While they did have their pet causes as First Ladies neither of them have shown any political aspirations of their own. Hillary hardly compares with the two of them.
So this makes them stupid and unworthy? They were still there to experience the presidency as she was. They may not have had political aspirations, but that doesn't make them incapable of knowing and understanding what goes on.
__________________
Butterscotch is offline  
Old 05-10-2008, 04:26 PM   #44
Blue Crack Distributor
 
VintagePunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In a dry and waterless place
Posts: 55,732
Local Time: 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch


So this makes them stupid and unworthy? They were still there to experience the presidency as she was. They may not have had political aspirations, but that doesn't make them incapable of knowing and understanding what goes on.

I didn't say they were stupid and unworthy (although yes, now that you mention it, the fact that they have no political experience of their own certainly does make them unworthy). I am merely pointing out that this is an area where their interests seem not to lie. I think they have shown this by the paths that their careers, or lack thereof in the case of Barbara, have taken.

Of course a spouse is going to have some degree of interest in what their partner does for a living, that's fairly normal in most cases. However, if that spouse had a special interest in following the career path of her partner, they're going to pay more attention and become more involved, aren't they? It's only logical.
__________________
VintagePunk is offline  
Old 05-10-2008, 06:37 PM   #45
Acrobat
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 459
Local Time: 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by VintagePunk


Please.

Barbara was a wife and mother, Laura an elementary school teacher and a librarian. While they did have their pet causes as First Ladies neither of them have shown any political aspirations of their own. Hillary hardly compares with the two of them.
And Hillary was a lawyer (not a particularly great one having failed the DC bar exam) and a Walmart board member. Politically, she has only 1 term more than Obama at the Federal level, and they're about equal in actual elected experience when you factor in Obama's time in the state senate.

As I said, between the two of them I don't have much of a preference. They've both decent candidates, but Hillary made some silly mistakes when campaigning, she ran an 'experience' campaign in the primary when the general would be against someone who is older than soot (and anyway you cut it on experience McCain has an edge). More than that I believe that given the last 8 years the campaign should have been about 'Change'. There's a reason Obama's rhetoric is so successful, it's tapping into the frustration against the current administration and the current status quo in Washington. 'Experience' just seems flat against that sort of argument.
__________________

__________________
popshopper is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com