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Old 08-05-2005, 02:13 PM   #121
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Okay, I suppose what I was trying to say is that I think there is sufficient difference between religion and scientific knowledge that I don't believe you can say someone puts their "faith" in science in the same way someone puts their "faith" in religion.
Certain areas of science are as provable as the fact that I have a nose on my face. Other areas are not, and are thus known as "theories". If someone puts their trust in "theories", it's faith.
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Old 08-05-2005, 02:17 PM   #122
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Not at all. Christ didn't mind raising a ruckus and speaking against things that the Pharisees held dear. So, I see no reason why he would have perpetuated the idea of Adam and Eve were it not true. Christ definitely would have known if Adam and Eve weren't real. The Bible does say that he was in the beginning with God and that he was in fact God, and it even says that Christ created everything.
I think John said that....

But that is another issue.....

If you believe that people of the day had the intellectual capability to discuss and understand evolution based on the science...more power to you. I do not.

I also do not understand your Pharisee comment....it is apples and oranges.....
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Old 08-05-2005, 02:20 PM   #123
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Certain areas of science are as provable as the fact that I have a nose on my face. Other areas are not, and are thus known as "theories". If someone puts their trust in "theories", it's faith.
If someone puts their trust in the Bible being a literal truth it is also "faith".
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Old 08-05-2005, 02:28 PM   #124
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I'm gonna create a religion today. My theory on the creation of humans is that a porcupine and a rhinocerous were the parents of the first human being.

Now let's think....why is my theory unfit to teach in a science class?
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Old 08-05-2005, 02:49 PM   #125
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Certain areas of science are as provable as the fact that I have a nose on my face. Other areas are not, and are thus known as "theories". If someone puts their trust in "theories", it's faith.
Yes, but even theories (such as evolution, just to keep this thread somewhat on track) are backed up by a significant amount of evidence. I don't accept evolution on "faith" I accept it because I look at the evidence for evolution, I look at the alternatives and decide that evolution is most plausible. Religion, on the other hand, is accepted on faith alone, it isn't about looking at alternative possibilities, examining the evidence and drawing a conclusion, it's about having faith which isn't dependent on any kind of objective evidence.
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Old 08-05-2005, 02:52 PM   #126
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I think John said that....

But that is another issue.....

If you believe that people of the day had the intellectual capability to discuss and understand evolution based on the science...more power to you. I do not.

I also do not understand your Pharisee comment....it is apples and oranges.....
Yes, it was the book of John that said that Christ was in the begininning with God and that Christ was God and that through Christ all things were made.

When I said Jesus referred to Adam and Eve, that happened in the book of Matthew.

And I didn't say anything about evolution and the people of the day. I simply said that if Christ is the on Of God, and Adam and Eve were not real, Christ would not have spoken about them as if they were real.
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Old 08-05-2005, 02:54 PM   #127
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If someone puts their trust in the Bible being a literal truth it is also "faith".
I know that. So what's your point?
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Old 08-05-2005, 04:08 PM   #128
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Yes, but even theories (such as evolution, just to keep this thread somewhat on track) are backed up by a significant amount of evidence. I don't accept evolution on "faith" I accept it because I look at the evidence for evolution, I look at the alternatives and decide that evolution is most plausible. Religion, on the other hand, is accepted on faith alone, it isn't about looking at alternative possibilities, examining the evidence and drawing a conclusion, it's about having faith which isn't dependent on any kind of objective evidence.
Exactly. Many things in science cannot be absolutely proven per se, but are generally accepted because they are backed with overwhelming evidence. Evolution is a scientific theory. Intelligent Design is not. It's as simple as that.

80s, even though I know you believe in ID, do you really think ideas based purely in faith should be taught in science classes in secular, public schools? Don't mean to be cliched, but it's a slippery slope.
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Old 08-05-2005, 05:04 PM   #129
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I know that. So what's your point?
...7...8...9....10

Point is they are both faith, except one is a hypothesis, based on scienctific evidence.
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Old 08-05-2005, 05:17 PM   #130
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...7...8...9....10

Point is they are both faith, except one is a hypothesis, based on scienctific evidence.
I know they are both faith. In fact, I said that previously.

There is also evidence to support the existence of God.
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Old 08-05-2005, 05:31 PM   #131
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I know they are both faith. In fact, I said that previously.

There is also evidence to support the existence of God.
This isn't about whether or not an intelligent power exists, it's about whether humans have evolved. Anyway, the rule in science is not "innocent until proven guilty" (ie, true until proven false).
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Old 08-05-2005, 05:56 PM   #132
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Certain areas of science are as provable as the fact that I have a nose on my face. Other areas are not, and are thus known as "theories". If someone puts their trust in "theories", it's faith.
You are mistaken, scientific fact is what is oberved, scientific theory is how that scientific fact is explained.
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Old 08-05-2005, 06:07 PM   #133
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You are mistaken, scientific fact is what is oberved, scientific theory is how that scientific fact is explained.
Oh, so macroevolution of mankind has been observed?
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Old 08-05-2005, 06:10 PM   #134
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80s, even though I know you believe in ID, do you really think ideas based purely in faith should be taught in science classes in secular, public schools? Don't mean to be cliched, but it's a slippery slope.
Basically, I think that Intelligent Design and Evolution should both get an introduction in public school, and then the child can explore on his own and make up his own mind.
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Old 08-05-2005, 06:14 PM   #135
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Macroevolution of homonids has been observed through our fossil record, and then a good example of observed macroevolution is the prevailence of sickle cell anemia in some African populations where there is natural selection because of mosquitos. Rapid evolution can be seen in the spread of goatsbeard from the East Coast of the US to the West Coast, between the turn of the century and 1950 a polyploidy event took place that enabled hybridized forms to breed creating new species.
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