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Old 08-05-2005, 05:50 AM   #106
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I tend to only put belief in things which are actual fact, Dread. I'd assumed before that most people do. It seems not, however. I dont even think I could go one less step and put faith in something which is fairly substantially bogus.
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Old 08-05-2005, 05:51 AM   #107
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Have you ever learned anything about yourself and your relationships with others through reading a book of fiction?
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Old 08-05-2005, 05:52 AM   #108
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For example, there are plenty of books.... The Giving Tree for example.....That I read every year on the first day of school, to get children thinking about their relationships with their peers.
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Old 08-05-2005, 07:44 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4


Actually, the theology of “original sin” as you are describing it is only one way of interpreting the Bible and it only one strand of Christian tradition. You do us all a disservice when you make the assumption that your brand of Christianity is the only true one. The mere fact that the Bible is a literary text and we humans have to read it in order to make meaning out of it would seem to suggest that multiple interpretations are going to be possible and even expected.
If I was doing any "interpreting", you might be right.

But I'm not doing any interpreting. In fact, my statement about "melon's and 80sU2's beliefs" addresses "interpretations".

What I am talking about are things that are written in black and white, interpretation of what is written aside. I can point you to verses in which Paul clearly speaks about sin and/or nature being passed down. These things are in black and white. Now, you can say that those verses shouldn't have been included in accepted canon,a nd that is your interpretation. But what I am talking about are words that are written down in the accepted canon of both Catholics and Protestants.
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Old 08-05-2005, 07:46 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I tend to only put belief in things which are actual fact, Dread. I'd assumed before that most people do. It seems not, however. I dont even think I could go one less step and put faith in something which is fairly substantially bogus.
Though you are declining to put your faith in the Bible as the word of God, you are nevertheless putting your faith in something.

The "something" you are choosing to put your faith in is the knowledge of man.
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Old 08-05-2005, 07:50 AM   #111
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Christ didn't come down as a scientist. He spoke in the language they understood, they still thought the earth was flat.
Do you agree that if Christ is the Son Of God, he knows the truth of whether Adam and Eve existed?

If so, why would he re-inforce what he knew to be a lie by speaking of it in the context of it actually happening?
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Old 08-05-2005, 07:59 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Though you are declining to put your faith in the Bible as the word of God, you are nevertheless putting your faith in something.

The "something" you are choosing to put your faith in is the knowledge of man.
But 80s, don't you accept there is a difference between believing in something for which evidence is available and believing in a religion for which there can be no evidence, but is accepted on faith alone?
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Old 08-05-2005, 09:24 AM   #113
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Do you agree that if Christ is the Son Of God, he knows the truth of whether Adam and Eve existed?

If so, why would he re-inforce what he knew to be a lie by speaking of it in the context of it actually happening?
Maybe because we don't need to know if it happened or not, and what's important is the lessons and ideas that we learn from it.
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Old 08-05-2005, 10:01 AM   #114
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But 80s, don't you accept there is a difference between believing in something for which evidence is available and believing in a religion for which there can be no evidence, but is accepted on faith alone?
Yes, there is indeed a difference. That said, you should know by now that my ultimate faith is not placed in man's wisdom. Man will be right sometimes, and sometimes he won't.

I believe that Christ is the Messiah, the Son of God. Because I believe that, I believe in the Bible. Because I believe in the Bible, I believe the Bible over man when a conflict arises. Therefore, if the Bible says that God created man in God's own image, I believe it, not what man might say about.

And in my life, I have encountered evidence that God - a higher power - does exist. I know that because in a highly dramatic, "no misinterpretation is possible" sort of way, he literally, not figuratively, saved my life once. I have told that story in FYM several times.
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Old 08-05-2005, 10:16 AM   #115
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80s: So when there's hard evidence of humans existing 20,000 years ago as was mentioned before, do you completely disregard it as man getting it wrong? You willfully ignore science unless it fits your views?

Dread: I agree with you, but you wouldn't teach Giving Tree as science, and the same applies for the Bible.
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Old 08-05-2005, 10:26 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally posted by VertigoGal
80s: So when there's hard evidence of humans existing 20,000 years ago as was mentioned before, do you completely disregard it as man getting it wrong? You willfully ignore science unless it fits your views?

Dread: I agree with you, but you wouldn't teach Giving Tree as science, and the same applies for the Bible.
I don't believe there's anything in the Bible that says man didn't exist 20,000 years ago.

On things that cannot be proven, I accept the Bible's words over man's science. I don't think the Bible contradicts anything that man can prove.
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Old 08-05-2005, 11:09 AM   #117
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The trouble here is that we're dealing with different philosophies regarding religion.

Religion really is, in many ways, an open book. As long as you believe it, anything is possible and the number of excuses and interpretations are infinite.

I often see that as a great analogy for the nature of "God." He is everything and nothing. It's kind of like how Hinduism takes that concept by saying that everything, including all the various deities, are all manifestations of the same deity, "Brahman."

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Old 08-05-2005, 11:17 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


Do you agree that if Christ is the Son Of God, he knows the truth of whether Adam and Eve existed?

If so, why would he re-inforce what he knew to be a lie by speaking of it in the context of it actually happening?
Yes I believe he is the Son of God....

No I do not know if he knows the truth of Adam and Eve .

Wouldn't it have been counterproductive of Christ to speak about Adam and Eve opposite the science of the day? There was no evidence of evolution then, and lacking that, why confuse the crud out of everyone?
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Old 08-05-2005, 12:15 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
Yes, there is indeed a difference. That said, you should know by now that my ultimate faith is not placed in man's wisdom. Man will be right sometimes, and sometimes he won't.
Okay, I suppose what I was trying to say is that I think there is sufficient difference between religion and scientific knowledge that I don't believe you can say someone puts their "faith" in science in the same way someone puts their "faith" in religion.
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Old 08-05-2005, 02:10 PM   #120
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Originally posted by Dreadsox



Wouldn't it have been counterproductive of Christ to speak about Adam and Eve opposite the science of the day? There was no evidence of evolution then, and lacking that, why confuse the crud out of everyone?
Not at all. Christ didn't mind raising a ruckus and speaking against things that the Pharisees held dear. So, I see no reason why he would have perpetuated the idea of Adam and Eve were it not true. Christ definitely would have known if Adam and Eve weren't real. The Bible does say that he was in the beginning with God and that he was in fact God, and it even says that Christ created everything.
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