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Old 08-03-2005, 01:36 PM   #61
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And what you don't realize is that you take just as big a leap of faith to follow evolution as an explaination for the beginning of life.
Science does and will evolve,
discard or leave inferior, defective theories behind

Religion sometimes evolves a bit to survive
or like the druids, and many other pass religions, they get left behind


Where is the intelligence in the eyeball and eyesight?
Human eyesight will deteriorate long before our life span is over.

There are insects the have better vision systems,
that are still working perfectly at the end of their life span.

A 100-year-old camera has better optics and will take a perfect picture than the image fifty-year-old eyes can produce.

Is the camera designer more intelligent than his designer?
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Old 08-03-2005, 01:39 PM   #62
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There is no objective evidence that the first life forms just "formed". In fact, the mathematics behind this actually happening would lead the average reasonable scientist to say it is impossible.

However, when you won't entertain an alternative idea, I guess you are stuck with evolution.
Why are you under the impression that most scientists argue that first life forms just "formed"?

That is patently false.

For example, something you may want to look into is the RNA world theory and how it pertains to slow evolution into the first life forms, rather than a short, definitive event.

There, you canot argue that mathematics are so improbable that they are unlikely.
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Old 08-03-2005, 01:39 PM   #63
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Melon, I'd be more interested in finding out more about how the Catholic theory of Evolution (as created by a higher power) differs from ID. Is there some good reading material/websites out there on the topic?
The Catholic "theory of evolution" is no different from the scientific theory of evolution. In fact, it officially frowns upon creationism, interestingly enough. You just are supposed to believe that God is the one responsible for evolution.

Now someone is probably thinking:

"How is this any different from intelligent design?"

Indeed, even once I was confused, but what separates "intelligent design" from Catholicism's belief in "theistic evolution" is that ID will modify conventional science to try and "disprove" natural selection. As such, ID engages in pseudoscience. "Theistic evolution," however, requires no modifications in conventional science to believe that God was still part of it. It would argue that "natural selection" still happened for theological reasons that we cannot comprehend. As such, Catholic high schools, when it comes to science education, I don't think "God" was even mentioned once. It was all about teaching conventional, secular scientific theory.

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Old 08-03-2005, 01:41 PM   #64
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As such, Catholic high schools, when it comes to science education, I don't think "God" was even mentioned once. It was all about teaching conventional, secular scientific theory.
That was certainly true in my high school.
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Old 08-03-2005, 01:55 PM   #65
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The Catholic "theory of evolution" is no different from the scientific theory of evolution. In fact, it officially frowns upon creationism, interestingly enough. You just are supposed to believe that God is the one responsible for evolution.

Now someone is probably thinking:

"How is this any different from intelligent design?"

Indeed, even once I was confused, but what separates "intelligent design" from Catholicism's belief in "theistic evolution" is that ID will modify conventional science to try and "disprove" natural selection. As such, ID engages in pseudoscience. "Theistic evolution," however, requires no modifications in conventional science to believe that God was still part of it. It would argue that "natural selection" still happened for theological reasons that we cannot comprehend. As such, Catholic high schools, when it comes to science education, I don't think "God" was even mentioned once. It was all about teaching conventional, secular scientific theory.

Melon
i guess they got enough of an ass-kicking

with the Galileo Affair
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Old 08-03-2005, 02:02 PM   #66
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Originally posted by melon


The Catholic "theory of evolution" is no different from the scientific theory of evolution. In fact, it officially frowns upon creationism, interestingly enough. You just are supposed to believe that God is the one responsible for evolution.

Now someone is probably thinking:

"How is this any different from intelligent design?"

Indeed, even once I was confused, but what separates "intelligent design" from Catholicism's belief in "theistic evolution" is that ID will modify conventional science to try and "disprove" natural selection. As such, ID engages in pseudoscience. "Theistic evolution," however, requires no modifications in conventional science to believe that God was still part of it. It would argue that "natural selection" still happened for theological reasons that we cannot comprehend. As such, Catholic high schools, when it comes to science education, I don't think "God" was even mentioned once. It was all about teaching conventional, secular scientific theory.

Melon
Thanks Melon. I have to admit I was a bit confused about the difference between theistic evolution and ID and you summed it up nicely. I fear, however, that many people will assume that ID and theistic evolution are the same thereby putting up less of a fight about letting ID into public school curriculum.
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Old 08-03-2005, 02:15 PM   #67
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I would really appreciate you answering the question I posed in my previous post if you have chance: "Perhaps you would like to explain on what grounds you consider intelligent design a valid scientific theory." After all, it really is key to the question of whether it's appropriate to teach 'intelligent design' in a science class.
Actually, I didn't see you really asking a question. Since you have already eliminated the consideration of God from the definition of science, how could accept a "valid scientific theory" for Intelligent Design.
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Old 08-03-2005, 02:19 PM   #68
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Actually, I didn't see you really asking a question. Since you have already eliminated the consideration of God from the definition of science, how could accept a "valid scientific theory" for Intelligent Design.
Well, now you've seen me asking it.

I'm a little confused by your response - does it mean that you accept that intelligent design isn't a scientific theory (in which case surely you must agree that it should not be taught in science class) or that you believe that a theory based on religious faith can be scientific?
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Old 08-03-2005, 03:44 PM   #69
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As such, Catholic high schools, when it comes to science education, I don't think "God" was even mentioned once. It was all about teaching conventional, secular scientific theory.

Melon
Yep. That's what I remember from my Catholic HS science classes. Of course, they were also taught by an atheist.
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Old 08-03-2005, 03:53 PM   #70
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Why are people so scared of intelligent design?
Well, why are people so scared of evolution?

Angela
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Old 08-03-2005, 04:07 PM   #71
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Well, why are people so scared of evolution?

Angela
Perfect! Let's have both
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Old 08-03-2005, 04:09 PM   #72
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Perfect! Let's have both
When the Christian Coalition allows gay marriage, I'll probably be in a more charitable mood.

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Old 08-03-2005, 04:14 PM   #73
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Perfect! Let's have both
Fine, I have no problem with that. But keep them in their respective places. After all, I wouldn't teach science in a church.

Angela
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Old 08-03-2005, 04:17 PM   #74
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Church of the Monkey Ancestor?
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Old 08-03-2005, 04:18 PM   #75
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Church of the Monkey Ancestor?
Heh, that'd be interesting....

*Images of a monkey shrine and everyone worshiping a monkey come to mind*

Angela
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