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Old 08-23-2005, 11:00 AM   #226
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I only question the use of the made-up terms. And you acknowledge that some of the terms used are designed to be inflammatory.


i'm geniunely perplexed.

please PM me if you'd like to continue this discussion, as here is not the place.
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:00 AM   #227
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
They are not, however, welcome to force that belief on all children in a science class.
This is an interesting dilema that frequently pops up in FYM.

Exactly when does a subject matter turn from class material to "forced belief"?
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:08 AM   #228
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Originally posted by nbcrusader

Exactly when does a subject matter turn from class material to "forced belief"?
the way the school system is currently set up, kids walk away with, if not "forced," then "strongly guided" beliefs as it is.
see: american history.
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:18 AM   #229
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When are Christians allowed to be offended by being taught something completely contrary to what they believe?
It seems that other people receive more validation for their offence when they are taught anything to do with creationism, but Christians are shoved aside when they say something?
I'm not talking about teaching creationism, Im just talking about teachers saying that the big bang is not absolute. That microevolution is not absolute, and that we're not really sure that we came from monkeys.
When I was in class they never said that there was any other option. They taught that this was this and there was nothing else
rantover
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:26 AM   #230
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Quote:
Originally posted by u2bonogirl
When are Christians allowed to be offended by being taught something completely contrary to what they believe?
I guess when it actually happens...

But in all seriousness, theory has never meant absolute.

We teach what the scientific process can theorize or prove...
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:31 AM   #231
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Originally posted by Se7en


the way the school system is currently set up, kids walk away with, if not "forced," then "strongly guided" beliefs as it is.
see: american history.
So, not matter the subject matter, children are forced, I mean, strongly guided by schools as to their beliefs?
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:32 AM   #232
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Quote:
Originally posted by u2bonogirl
When are Christians allowed to be offended by being taught something completely contrary to what they believe?
It seems that other people receive more validation for their offence when they are taught anything to do with creationism, but Christians are shoved aside when they say something?
I'm not talking about teaching creationism, Im just talking about teachers saying that the big bang is not absolute. That microevolution is not absolute, and that we're not really sure that we came from monkeys.
When I was in class they never said that there was any other option. They taught that this was this and there was nothing else
rantover
Christians are free to be offended whenever they wish. They are not, however, free to decide that their right not to be offended supercedes the right of every child in the United States to receive a science education based on scientific knowledge not on religious speculation.

Edited to be nicer: But you all know what I was going to say re "microevolution" anyway.
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:34 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


So, not matter the subject matter, children are forced, I mean, strongly guided by schools as to their beliefs?
i believe one could make an argument for it, however at a higher level - the state.

are schools not one of the most powerful agents of socialization?
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Old 08-23-2005, 12:56 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally posted by u2bonogirl
When are Christians allowed to be offended by being taught something completely contrary to what they believe?
It seems that other people receive more validation for their offence when they are taught anything to do with creationism, but Christians are shoved aside when they say something?
I'm not talking about teaching creationism, Im just talking about teachers saying that the big bang is not absolute. That microevolution is not absolute, and that we're not really sure that we came from monkeys.
When I was in class they never said that there was any other option. They taught that this was this and there was nothing else
rantover

which is why these things are called *theories* ... but they have decades of research to back them up, as opposed to ideological conjecture used to fill in gaps between what can be verified or falsified.
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Old 08-23-2005, 12:59 PM   #235
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I realize that they are called theories, but when they are presented as fact, whether they are called it by that name or not, its misleading.
Thats my point. Not that creationism should be taught as a science, but that what we do know is not solid fact and that there are still major gaps and questions.
None of my middle or high school science experience was like that. They told us that microevolution was what happened, that the big bang happened and how, and then left it at that. We had the little monkey chart that showed us gradually becoming human
Its just narrowminded and misleading
*sits and waits for the backlash of a christian using the word narrowminded to describe somebody else*
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:08 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally posted by u2bonogirl
I realize that they are called theories, but when they are presented as fact, whether they are called it by that name or not, its misleading.
Thats my point. Not that creationism should be taught as a science, but that what we do know is not solid fact and that there are still major gaps and questions.
None of my middle or high school science experience was like that. They told us that microevolution was what happened, that the big bang happened and how, and then left it at that. We had the little monkey chart that showed us gradually becoming human
Its just narrowminded and misleading
*sits and waits for the backlash of a christian using the word narrowminded to describe somebody else*
If you know how hypocritical it is than why did you say it?

Evolution should be taught in schools, said schools should make it clear that it is a theory with a hell of a lot of scientific evidence behind but not neccessarily fact, and that there are other theories that won't be discussed or taught in public schools. Religion should be taught in religious schools and nowhere else. Keep it out of the public schools.
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:11 PM   #237
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Quote:
Originally posted by u2bonogirl
They told us that microevolution was what happened
That's because microevolution is what happened. I deleted my reference to this in my previous post because I thought perhaps you'd just made a typo (ie you meant macroevolution not microevolution) and I didn't want to seem like a know-it-all. The fact is that microevolution does occur and there is observable scientific evidence of this, for example the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria.
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:11 PM   #238
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Originally posted by u2bonogirl
I realize that they are called theories, but when they are presented as fact, whether they are called it by that name or not, its misleading.
Then your school system did a poor job. That's unfortunate, I didn't have that experience.
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:11 PM   #239
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what happens when a student asks, what caused the big bang? Should the teacher pretend the question was never asked or have the student removed from school and sent off to a religious school for inquiring minds?
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:17 PM   #240
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what happens when a student asks, what caused the big bang? Should the teacher pretend the question was never asked or have the student removed from school and sent off to a religious school for inquiring minds?
lol, of course not! Science education should actively encourage intellectual curiosity, not punish students for asking questions. The 'big bang' theory does include an explanation of what caused the big bang but I honestly couldn't do justice to that explanation so I'm going to leave it to someone smarter than me to explain.
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