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Old 02-28-2003, 04:31 PM   #16
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Originally posted by u2popmofo

I personally dont care what someone from Europe has to say about Iraq or terrorism, and what policies the US are taking towards them, whether it's Bono or not. They werent the ones who losts thousands of lives in one day.

He can feel free to say all he wants about Tony Blair though.
I may be being really dumb here, but is your argument that Bono shouldn't comment on Bush and the US because he's not an American?

Because in that case, how does it make sense for him to comment on Blair, being as he's Irish, not British?

Again, sorry if I've completely misinterpreted you!
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Old 02-28-2003, 05:06 PM   #17
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As always, the press puts a liberal spin on everything... check out U2Log.com for a video of what Bono actually said. Yes, he said that he disagrees with Blair, and "who wouldn't want peace?" But he also said that he doesn't believe Blair and Bush would go to war over just oil, and that there are complicated issues to deal with here, and those who think that the war is over oil are dead wrong. But alas, he still does disagree with the war. I can respect Bono's opinion on this, even though I do support the war myself. He said that he understands that this is not over oil, he just disagrees with it. That's fine, unlike the likes of Sheryl Crow, the huge anti-war protester, who openly supported US action in Kosovo, and actually traveled with Hillary Clinton to Kosovo. Hypocrits like that, i just don't have the time for.
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Old 02-28-2003, 05:11 PM   #18
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Bono's full quote to the press, upon being asked for his opinion on Iraq...

"How can you not be for peace? What I don't agree with are those who make this out to be simple or conspiratorial, like it's all about oil. I don't believe that, OK? I just don't buy the conspiracy. Tony Blair is not going to war for oil. Tony Blair to me is a great politcian. He is sincere about his convictions in Iraq, but in my opinion he is sincerly wrong.

Bono's quote as printed in the French media...

After receiving the Legion of Honor medal from French President Jacque Chirac, Bono addressed journalists outside the Elysee Palace in Paris. When asked for his opinion on British Prime Minister Tony Blair’s position on Iraq, Bono replied, “Tony Blair is to me a great politician. He is sincere in his convictions about Iraq, but in my opinion he is sincerely wrong.”

Asked if he approved of Chirac’s policy of urging more time for UN weapons inspectors in Iraq, Bono said, “How can you not be for peace?” (Source: Agence France Presse)


Just a simple job of cut and paste by Agence France Presse to make the quote sound completely on the side of the French, rather than just kinda on their side. Obviously Bono's going to be for peace. If he came out and said yes, we should have war, the liberal press would blast him for being a hypocrit. But at least he understands that this is a very complicated issue, and that both sides have valid points. He just happens to agree with the side that doesn't want to go to war right now. But he obviously understands the reasoing behing the US and the UK wanting to strike.
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Old 02-28-2003, 05:15 PM   #19
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I think it's interesting what he has to say about Saddam, martyrdom, and propaganda. Do we really need to give Saddam more propaganda? Should we turn a rogue into a martyr, which would make him a hero to people? Heaven forbid. How can we be so sure that a war will take Saddam out? In the words of another great musician, Georgie Gershwin, "It ain't necessarily so". Interesting perspective.
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Old 02-28-2003, 05:21 PM   #20
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The whole Saddam is a martyr thing is highly over-rated. The man is not overly religous. He's about as devout a Muslim as Mike Tyson is. Look at the press coverage durring the first Gulf War. When the reporters were inside Iraq, they reported that the people "loved Saddam" and were going to fight with him till the end. The war came, the people waved the white flag faster than you could say boo, and when the reporters came out they gave stories on how the people actually hated Saddam, but as long as they were inside of Iraq, they were not allowed to report that. Even UBL does not like Saddam for not being a devout Muslim. That's not to say he won't deal with him, and it's clear that he has, to some extent, dealt with him in the past. If the enemy of my enemy is my enemy, then the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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Old 02-28-2003, 05:25 PM   #21
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And let's not forget that Al Qaeda and UBL aren't the only ones out there... Hamas and Islamic Jihad are just as viable, and they DO like Saddam for his stance against Israel.
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Old 02-28-2003, 07:31 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
The whole Saddam is a martyr thing is highly over-rated. The man is not overly religous. He's about as devout a Muslim as Mike Tyson is. Look at the press coverage durring the first Gulf War. When the reporters were inside Iraq, they reported that the people "loved Saddam" and were going to fight with him till the end. The war came, the people waved the white flag faster than you could say boo, and when the reporters came out they gave stories on how the people actually hated Saddam, but as long as they were inside of Iraq, they were not allowed to report that. Even UBL does not like Saddam for not being a devout Muslim. That's not to say he won't deal with him, and it's clear that he has, to some extent, dealt with him in the past. If the enemy of my enemy is my enemy, then the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
I totally agree. Virtually no one in the Middle East likes Saddam. Sure, they hate the US even worse, but still it's pretty difficult to make a martyr out of someone that everyone hates to begin with.

The martyr arguement is really uneducated...

Thanks for the actual article HeadinaSuitcase
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Old 02-28-2003, 07:45 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by u2popmofo


Virtually no one in the Middle East likes Saddam. Sure, they hate the US even worse, but still it's pretty difficult to make a martyr out of someone that everyone hates to begin with.

Interesting... There was an article in the LA Times this morning about how so many Jordanians really think very highly of Saddam because he's standing up to the US. ( I didn't say that he's standing up to the US, the Jordanians believe that he is.) They don't necessarily love him, but they hold him in high esteem.






neccessarily
necessarily
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Old 02-28-2003, 08:26 PM   #24
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Just today there was a huge demonstration against the war in a country that borders Saudi Arabia, I think it was Qatar. My ISP had a pretty graphic picture of angry demonstrators. Do they really want us over there, or is that just the U.S. government (Rumsfeld in particular) spin? If I could trust these politicians worth a it'd be different.
I give up. I'm getting really tired of Iraq. To hell with it, hurry up and fight the war so it can be history and I can stop thinking about it. This is a nightmare.
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Old 02-28-2003, 08:31 PM   #25
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From U2.com: I read this earlier>
Knight and Day

Bono was in Paris this morning to receive the prestigious ‘Knight of the Legion of Honour’ medal from French President Jacques Chirac.

Bono, accompanied by his wife Ali, was honoured for his humanitarian work in campaigning for debt cancellation for the poorest countries and a better deal for Africa in the face of the AIDS pandemic. It is the second time in two years he has met Chirac – they met last year when Bono was pressing the French for greater aid for developing countries.

Asked by reporters on the current Iraq crisis, Bono said that he believed that UK Prime Minster Tony Blair is sincere in his position on Iraq, ‘but sincerely wrong’.

‘In my opinion Tony Blair is a great politician. His convictions about Iraq are sincere, but for me he is sincerely wrong.’

He added that it would be a mistake to make a martyr of Saddam Hussein through the use of force. ‘He's good at propaganda. Let's not make it easier for him.’

More on Bono’s advocacy work for Africa here:
www.datadata.org
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Old 02-28-2003, 11:34 PM   #26
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The funny thing about all of this is that people are blaming the U.S. and U.K. and now Spain for wanting to use force to disarm Iraq. But they are only following through on resolution 1441 that calls for use of force if Iraq does not disarm fully with complete cooperation. That means that THEY bring out all their WMD's and they say, yes we will destroy them right now. It's not about the UN searching and searching, for 12 years now, writing resolution after resolution to try and get the weapons out (this is the 16th resolution by the way). I'm about as liberal as they come, but if anyone actually believes that Iraq is cooperating in any way other than to buy Saddam more years in power to suppress and kill his people are kidding themselves. People who are supposedly for "peace" are completely overlooking not just the threat of Iraq attacking countries around him, not just aiding terrorists in killing Americans and Europeans, but the simple fact that he is a human rights atrocity, all day - every day. It bothers me that Bono and so many other musicians/celebrities and just every day opponents of this war, say they believe in human rights (ie. Amnesty International) but think that we just let Saddam sit back and continue to kill, rape, and ravage the people of his country.

And just so you know, they just had the meeting of all the Arab countries in Egypt and all of the press and reporters from those countries said that they all want Saddam out of power, but none of the leaders have the courage to stand up and say it. I wonder why???? could it be that they all know what weapons he posseses. Very sad. I am not a fan of war at all. But people need to inform themselves of all the facts, and not just spout peace for peace sakes. Because in actuality, a conflict may bring peace to many people in the future.

Also I find it sad that France seems to be against any conflict because of their lucrative trade agreements with Iraq. That is just as sick as going to war for oil.
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Old 03-01-2003, 04:59 AM   #27
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there are "huge protests" in the united states and the UK every weekend... yet the last gallop poll here in america stated that 60% of americans support war in iraq, and the last poll in the britain said that 56% support the war. you don't really see those stats though, thanks to the lovely liberal press. god bless you bill o'reilly... long island's finest!
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Old 03-01-2003, 07:42 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
there are "huge protests" in the united states and the UK every weekend... yet the last gallop poll here in america stated that 60% of americans support war in iraq, and the last poll in the britain said that 56% support the war. you don't really see those stats though, thanks to the lovely liberal press.
I think the protests you're referring to as happening "every weekend" are the smaller local protests, rather than big national ones. There was a demonstration outside RAF Fairford last weekend and next weekend there are demos in quite a few cities in the North of England.

As for your polling figures, you should mention that those people are convinced of war only with the backing of the United Nations. So to use the example of Britain, if war was to start tomorrow, without the backing of the UN, many of those 56% you label as supporters would not support the war.

And the liberal press...oh I wish We've only really got one anti-war newspaper: The Daily Mirror. The others are all sort of on-the-fence about the issue and print pro-war editorials one day and anti-war editorials the next. I wish those editors would make up their minds already
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Old 03-01-2003, 11:14 AM   #29
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biased liberal media?
*passes out laughing*
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Old 03-01-2003, 11:25 AM   #30
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well i don't know if the uk numbers are w/ un or w/out... so i'll take your word for that. but the numbers that foxnews, cnn and msnbc keep throwin' up on the tv here are just flat out yes or no... go to war or don't go to war... with or without the UN. and the majority of americans still favor taking action in iraq, even though one would think it's the other way around with all the press coverage... we can thank our pissant american celbrities for that... fred durst getting up on the grammys and saying i think we're all in agreement that this war shouldn't happen. sheryl i only support wars if they're democratic wars crow with her "no war" guitar strap... susan sarandon and tim robbins... martin sheen, who thinks because he plays the president on tv that people should listen to him when he talks about politics... sean penn, who thinks people should listen to him because he makes weird artsy movies that critics love but no one goes to see
funny... you didn't see a big fuss in the press when steven spielberg and tom cruise, two people with more star power than all of those previously mentioned combined, came out in support of war in iraq... i wonder why that is?

alas... there's only one man who can truly put this whole situation in perspective...

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