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Old 08-23-2005, 03:34 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
I don't hold him responsible for them at all, but apparently some people do
Which wouldn´t even be an issue if "the conservative Christian Right" was intelligent enough to not defend its extremists, but take a certain distance towards the extremists´ statements. Then Bono could easily and openly agree with "the conservative Christian Right" in the media, concerning this matter (presumed he gives a flying fuck about it).

Since the extremists are in minority, this would make it easier for everyone involved. But the conservative Christians who don´t support Robertson still decide to remain in silence mediawise.
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Old 08-23-2005, 03:36 PM   #77
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1. Bono is not as stupid as some people here like to think.

2. While Robertson is indeed fucking crazy, I doubt he's so off from the Christian majority as some people want to believe; how is he getting enough money to stay on the air if no one supports him?

3. Isn't it a Christian belief that it's wrong to kill? (Not that we can tell by our president.) That's what makes what Robertson said unBiblical.

4. The reason is not right to just go in and assassinate this guy? He's a democratically elected leader of another country. Used to be that mattered to a democracy like the US. I'm not sure it doeas anymore, but it matters to this particular participant in the democratic process.

5. If people start unsupporting the ONE campaign because of what Robertson said, and his links to it, then they were half-hearted supporters looking for a cheesy reason to leave anyway.
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Old 08-23-2005, 03:37 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Since the extremists are in minority, this would make it easier for everyone involved. But the conservative Christians who don´t support Robertson still decide to remain in silence mediawise.
I wonder if everyone's become completely obsessed with not offending and not alienating a person or group of people who may be desirable as an ally somewhere down the road.

Isn't that why Bono hangs around some of these wackos? Because they are influential with a group of people whom Bono may need at some point?

Sometimes I wonder how much nonsense is worth putting up with for a cause.
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Old 08-23-2005, 03:38 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
concerning this matter (presumed he gives a flying fuck about it).
This is the pivotal point here. And I don't think he does give a flying fuck about it.
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Old 08-23-2005, 03:46 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha


This is the pivotal point here. And I don't think he does give a flying fuck about it.
agreed but he could write a song about it. probably with some intro in Spanish or Portugese so the people in Venezuela dig it even more
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Old 08-23-2005, 04:21 PM   #81
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I found this interesting. It's from Time.com.


Why Pat Robertson's Statements Help Hugo Chavez
The Venezuelan President has long thrived on criticism from the U.S.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has a new best friend this morning: television evangelist Pat Robertson. With his astonishing call for the left-wing leader's assassination last night—"I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it...We have the ability to take him out"—Robertson will have surely made Chavez an even more popular anti-yanqui icon in Venezuela, Latin America and around the world. Like his mentor Fidel Castro, Chavez thrives on threats from the U.S., real or perceived. He has long insisted that his foes are plotting to kill him, and this summer had armed civilians training with the Venezuelan military to prepare for what he says is an imminent U.S. invasion. A public effort to whack him, offered from the right-wing Christian establishment so closely aligned with President Bush, is just what Chavez needs to keep his approval ratings soaring as high as the price of the Venezuelan oil he controls, the largest crude reserves in the hemisphere.

Chavez is no doubt a source of concern for Washington, if only because Venezuela is America's fourth-largest foreign oil supplier. Chavez's erratic and often bellicose anti-U.S. rhetoric—he publicly called Bush an "ass____" in Spanish last year—as well as his desire to sell less oil to the U.S. and more to ideological allies like China, are hardly comforting as gas nears $3 per gallon. But neither is Chavez's embrace of nations like Iran, and nor is the fact that he's leading a politically potent (and, to the Bush Administration, potentially destabilizing) wave of angry neo-leftism in Latin America, from Argentina to Mexico.

But Chavez holds cards that make remarks like Robertson's all the more incendiary on the Latin American street, where language like "U.S. imperialism" suddenly has currency again. One is the past: Latin Americans have too many vivid and bitter memories of U.S. intervention in their countries—operations that sometimes included brazen assassinations —which is why the Bush Administration got burned by accusations it backed a failed coup against Chavez in 2002 (the White House denies the charge). Another is democratic legitimacy: Chavez, for all his authoritarian tendencies, is a democratically elected head of state who last year won a national recall referendum approved by international observers.

Perhaps an even more important factor is populist backing: leftism is on the rise again in Latin America for a reason, namely the burgeoning feeling around the region that a decade of U.S.-backed capitalist reforms has simply widened an already epic gap between rich and poor—and that the Bush Administration is indifferent to it. As Chavez uses his multi-billion-dollar oil revenues to fund the kind of social projects that Venezuela's legions of impoverished never saw from his kleptocratic predecessors—and to subsidize cheaper oil for his cash-strapped Latin neighbors—more people are willing to defend him, as most Latin leaders did last spring when Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice toured South America.

As a result, any cold war-style talk about "taking Chavez out" with "covert operatives," as Robertson suggested, just confers more Che Guevara cachet on the former army lieutenant colonel (who himself led a failed coup in 1992). And since Chavez has threatened to cut off oil exports to the U.S. at the first sign of gringo aggression, it makes America's important Venezuelan oil supply look all the more volatile.
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Old 08-23-2005, 04:40 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram


I wonder if everyone's become completely obsessed with not offending and not alienating a person or group of people who may be desirable as an ally somewhere down the road.
See the Republican Party. They started pandering to the Christian right because without them they were the minority party. Now party traditionalists have to work hard not to alienate that section of the electorate by offering them things and consulting with them on topics like the SCOTUS process. But their alliance with the Christian right has given the Republicans control of government, and while the suburban moderates and libertarians may feel uncomfortable with it, they know this alliance is the only way they can get their party in power so they accept it. Such is the way of getting things done in politics and life.

Quote:

Isn't that why Bono hangs around some of these wackos? Because they are influential with a group of people whom Bono may need at some point?

Sometimes I wonder how much nonsense is worth putting up with for a cause.
With a situation like Africa I'd say he'd very well put up with anything.
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Old 08-23-2005, 05:50 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
the more incendiary on the Latin American street, where language like "U.S. imperialism" suddenly has currency again. One is the past: Latin Americans have too many vivid and bitter memories of U.S. intervention in their countries—operations that sometimes included brazen assassinations —which is why the Bush Administration got burned
Exactly. I got some pics of my last trip to Nicaragua a year ago to back this up. Thats graffitis at a bus station.






Hehe.
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:53 PM   #84
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For more strange yet quite probably true stories and theories on Pat Robertson and his ilk check out www.antipasministries.com
It's high time Bono just quits associating with these creeps. If I meet him this fall during the tour I will attempt to get this across to him in the kindest of ways. Maybe it's even time to pray (for those who do pray) for Bono - pray for protection (spritual and otherwise) from these creepy "Christians".
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Old 08-23-2005, 09:40 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees
This is a valid point. It seems we (meaning residents of many western countries) have very high standards in our expectation that Muslims will condemn extremism in the strongest terms. It seems only fair to expect the Christian community to condemn its extremists in similarly strong terms.
Agree with this.

At the same time, though, I'm not about to start stereotyping all people from a religion based on the comments and actions of a few idiots, and I think to expect most Christians, or most Muslims, or most people from any religion, to publicly state that these idiots' views aren't theirs just seems a bit odd. Maybe I'm just being too optimistic, as usual, but I don't really need the majority of Christians or Muslims telling me they don't support the actions of the few idiots...I would kinda assume that was the case already, personally. I think most religious people are good, kind-hearted souls who would never dream of saying or doing some of the things the few idiots who happen to share the same faith as them would say or do.

But that's just me. I see what Hiphop is saying here, and some valid points are being raised, and this bit from Fizz is really something worth considering, too-fair play, after all, but...I dunno .

And I'll also agree with BVS Shaliz and martha and them. I also just assume that Bono's not into supporting assassinations of anybody, I wouldn't need a public condemnation from him to Pat to prove that to me. And while I fully support and applaud some people being very vocal about their beliefs on an issue, at the same time, I also applaud and support those who choose to go about that more quietly. It's a personal decision there. And it's a hard one, too-it's nice to vocalize your beliefs, people know for sure where you stand that way and there's no confusion. But at the same time, if you vocalize them a certain way, you risk being accused of being pushy. Or you actually do become pushy. You're gonna piss people off on both sides either way. So each person should just decide for themselves how they want to change things-publicly or privately. Bono can decide who he wishes to work with and how he wishes to get his views on things out there to the people.

Angela
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Old 08-23-2005, 09:58 PM   #86
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And now we all (at least all of us in the US) better hope like crazy that Chavez doesn't get assassinated by anyone.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:01 PM   #87
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I don't want people condemning terror if they actually support it, I just want to know where people really stand.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:58 PM   #88
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this just in over the wires
Quote:
Robertson Issues Fatwa Against Venezuela's Chavez
by Scott Ott

(2005-08-23) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez beefed up security at his residence and offices today after reports that Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson has issued a fatwa calling for the assassination of the South American communist dictator.

Venezuelan police have begun detaining and searching "clean cut, Bible-toting men in unfashionable clothing" as likely followers of the wealthy, charismatic religious personality. However, the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) immediately lodged a protest with the Venezuelan government over the "profiling" of '700 Club' devotees by security forces.

Mr. Robertson is revered among his fanatical TV viewers, who each year contribute millions of dollars to advance his so-called "ministry," as much as he's feared by the teams of U.S. journalists who track his movements and record his remarks.

The Pentagon immediately denied that Mr. Robertson's name had previously appeared on any Defense Department "watch list," but a spokesman discouraged news networks from airing video of the Robertson fatwa announcement, fearing his remarks might contain coded instructions for Christian cell groups around the world.
http://www.scrappleface.com/MT/archives/002288.html
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Old 08-24-2005, 06:25 AM   #89
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Some Other Lovely Quotes From the Right

Murder on their minds: Robertson not alone among conservative media figures
Pat Robertson's recent call for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has sparked significant media coverage. But Robertson, host of Christian Broadcasting Network's The 700 Club and founder of the Christian Coalition of America, is not the first to make a comment of this sort. Indeed, Media Matters for America has documented several other instances of conservative media figures advocating or musing about the execution of people with whom they disagree.

O'Reilly said LA Times' Kinsley wouldn't "get it" until terrorists "cut off his head"

Fox News host Bill O'Reilly said that the Los Angeles Times editorial board wouldn't understand his objection to legal representation for detainees at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, until terrorists kill editorial page editor Michael Kinsley.

From the May 17 broadcast of Westwood One's The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly:

O'REILLY: No, no. I want you to read it. Go to LATimes.com. I want everybody in the country to read this editorial, 'cause it just -- I mean, you'll be sitting there pounding the table like I did. How can they -- how can they think this way? How can anyone think this way? You know, "Shutting down Guantánamo and giving suspected terrorists legal protections would help restore our reputation abroad." No, it wouldn't. I mean that's like saying, well, if we're nicer to the people who want to KILL US, then the other people who want to KILL US will like us more. Does that make any sense to you? Do you think Osama [bin Laden] is gonna be more favorably disposed to the U.S. if we give the Guantánamo people lawyers?

E.D. HILL (co-host): No, of course not.

O'REILLY: I mean, but this is what they're saying. It is just -- you just sit there, you go, "They'll never get it until they grab Michael Kinsley out of his little house and they cut his head off." And maybe when the blade sinks in, he'll go, "Perhaps O'Reilly was right."

Glenn Beck confessed that he was "thinking about killing Michael Moore"

Clear Channel radio host Glenn Beck said he was "thinking about killing [filmmaker] Michael Moore" and pondered whether "I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it."

From the May 17 broadcast of The Glenn Beck Program:

BECK: Hang on, let me just tell you what I'm thinking. I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I'm wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out -- is this wrong? I stopped wearing my What Would Jesus -- band -- Do, and I've lost all sense of right and wrong now. I used to be able to say, "Yeah, I'd kill Michael Moore," and then I'd see the little band: What Would Jesus Do? And then I'd realize, "Oh, you wouldn't kill Michael Moore. Or at least you wouldn't choke him to death." And you know, well, I'm not sure.

Coulter said the debate over Clinton should have been "whether to impeach or assassinate"

Syndicated columnist Ann Coulter argued that the national debate during the Monica Lewinsky controversy should not have focused on whether President Bill Clinton "did it," but rather "whether to impeach or assassinate" him.

The quote appeared in Coulter's book High Crimes and Misdemeanors: The Case Against Bill Clinton (Regnery, 1998):

In this recurring nightmare of a presidency, we have a national debate about whether he "did it," even though all sentient people know he did. Otherwise there would be debates only about whether to impeach or assassinate.

— J.K.

Posted to the web on Tuesday August 23, 2005 at 3:56 PM EST
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Old 08-24-2005, 12:51 PM   #90
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Interesting twist....

Quote:
Chavez Offers Cheap Gas to Poor in U.S.
By David Pace
Reuters

HAVANA, Cuba - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, popular with the poor at home, offered on Tuesday to help needy Americans with cheap supplies of gasoline.

We want to sell gasoline and heating fuel directly to poor communities in the United States," the populist leader told reporters at the end of a visit to Communist-run Cuba.

Chavez did not say how Venezuela would go about providing gasoline to poor communities. Venezuelan state oil company PDVSA owns Citgo, which has 14,000 gas stations in the United States.

The offer may sound attractive to Americans feeling pinched by soaring prices at the pump but not to the U.S. government, which sees Chavez as a left-wing troublemaker in Latin America.

Gasoline is cheaper than mineral water in oil-producing Venezuela, where consumers can fill their tanks for less than $2. Average gas prices have risen to $2.61 a gallon in the United States, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

Chavez said Venezuela could supply gasoline to Americans at half the price they now pay if intermediaries who "speculated ... and exploited consumers" were cut out.

Venezuela supplies Cuba with generously financed oil and plans to help Caribbean nations foot their oil bills.

Chavez, in Cuba to attend the graduation of Cuban-trained doctors from 28 countries, was seen off at the airport by Cuban President Fidel Castro. Washington has accused the two leaders of being a destabilizing influence in South America.

Chavez and Castro offered to give poor Americans free health care and train doctors free of charge.
*edited to add that there are a lot of Cuban doctors who do really great work here in Mali. Guess not everything that comes out of Cuba is automatically eeeevil.
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