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Old 08-26-2005, 02:00 AM   #151
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i feel like im on crazy pills
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Old 08-26-2005, 06:13 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I wouldn't mind seeing the guy busted myself, if only to prove that guy doesn't speak for me, and as a Christian and an American it's very annoying.
there are plenty of Christians who feel the same way

from about.com

The 10 Stupidest Things Pat Robertson Ever Said

10) "Over 100 years, I think the gradual erosion of the consensus that’s held our country together is probably more serious than a few bearded terrorists who fly into buildings." –on the dangers of judicial activism

9) "Lord, give us righteous judges who will not try to legislate and dominate this society. Take control, Lord! We ask for additional vacancies on the court."

8) "Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress, the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the Christians.

7) "Well, I totally concur." –to Jerry Falwell following the Sept. 11 attacks, after Falwell said, "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say: "You helped this happen."

6) "I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you, This is not a message of hate -- this is a message of redemption. But a condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs; it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor." –on "gay days" at Disneyworld

5) "(T)he feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."

4) "I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period."

3) "That was never in the Constitution, however much the liberals laugh at me for saying it, they know good and well it was never in the Constitution! Such language only appeared in the constitution of the Communist Soviet Union." –on the constitutional separation of church and state

2) "Maybe we need a very small nuke thrown off on Foggy Bottom to shake things up" –on nuking the State Department

1) "You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with." -calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez

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Old 08-26-2005, 06:25 AM   #153
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from Newsweek

By Patti Davis

Aug. 23, 2005 - Pat Robertson considers himself a man of God, a Christian, a preacher of the Gospel. To all of these aspects of his self-delusion, the only appropriate response is: Huh? His latest suggestion, as this self-proclaimed man of God, is that Hugo Chavez, the president of Venezuela, should be assassinated. On his “700 Club” TV show, Robertson said Chavez could turn Venezuela into a safe haven for Communist and Muslim extremists. "You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it," said Robertson, who founded the Christian Coalition. "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... and I don't think any oil shipments will stop."


True men of God, of course, do not entertain such notions. They certainly don’t preach them. Men of blasphemy do.

Did Robertson lose his Bible? Or has he simply rewritten it in his own language? What happened to “Thou Shalt Not Kill?” This is not the first time Robertson has expressed a fondness for assassination. In October 2003 he suggested that nuclear weapons be dropped on the State Department.

Have any authorities checked his basement?

Here’s what I’m curious about. How does someone who has wrapped himself in the cloak of Christianity for decades come up with such ideas and express them with such ease? Does he pray first? Does he get on his knees, close his eyes and say, “God, I really want to take a few people out here. I know we’re all supposed to be your children, but there are some bad ones in the bunch and I’m figuring they probably got through by mistake. So how about culling the herd?” And then does he actually imagine God answering him and saying, “Go forth, my child with whatever weapons you can find. If you can’t scrounge up any yourself, spread the word. Preach to the masses. Someone will pick up the sword, pull the trigger or drop the bomb.”

At the risk of sounding quaint, this is just not the God I was raised with, and it certainly isn’t the God who answers me. I close my eyes sometimes and say, “God, I gave someone the finger today when I was driving. I know I shouldn’t have.” And what I hear back is something like, “I saw that. And I’ve told you before, that was a child of mine too. A tailgating one, but my child nonetheless.”

I’m actually feeling a lot better now about my temper flares in traffic. At least I’ve never considered using weaponry.

I’m sure the members of the Christian Coalition won’t take my suggestions, but they might want to consider making a rule that anyone who calls himself a Christian has to have some passing acquaintance with the teachings of Jesus. I’m no Biblical scholar but I am absolutely sure that Jesus never suggested assassinating anyone.

When I lived in New York City, I used to give money to a homeless man who stood on the same corner of Columbus Avenue every day, rain or shine. He was never pushy, he was always polite, and I just felt like giving him money. One day, I saw a man in a business suit getting right in this man’s face, waving a Bible at him and telling him he was a sinner and he had to accept Jesus and ask forgiveness for his sins. I walked up, gave the homeless man a five and said to the sidewalk preacher, “You know, Jesus would never do what you’re doing.” I walked away quickly before he could hit me with his Bible. And I walked away feeling very sorry for Jesus. People keep doing things in his name that are so un-Christianlike.

Well, if I felt sorry for Jesus then, I feel like weeping for him now. Shouldn’t people like Pat Robertson just go start their own religion and leave Jesus out of it?

I found another quote of Robertson’s from several years ago. He said that feminism encourages women “to kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians.”

I would respond to this but I have to go boil some eye of newt, lizard tails and pig blood. And I am so behind on my schedule to bring down the bastions of capitalism. I got delayed because I was flirting with this cute girl down the street.

Davis, the daughter of Nancy and Ronald Reagan, is a writer based in Los Angeles.
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Old 08-26-2005, 07:41 AM   #154
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I'm all for freedom of speech. I can't stand the Ku Klux Klan but think they have a right to say what they damn please at meetings, on web sites, in leltters to the newspapers, etc, etc. When someone actually advocates an assassination, though, I have to think that's like joking about bombs at the airport.. A person has to be responsible for what they say. Maybe we shouldn't bust Robertson, and he's getting what he deserves from the media, a good frying. But for him to say such a thing and then plead "frustration" is just plain lame.
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Old 08-26-2005, 06:16 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Check the post of Scarletwine above.
It's still protected speech in the US. Which is fine by me. I'd rather have that moron be allowed to say any inane thing he wants than to have my freedom of speech curtailed.

The fact that he's allowed to say it and not be prosecuted is a right that I hold very dear. The rest of us in the US better start holding it a little dearer, because if Robertson's pals in the White House and Congress get their way, we may have some trouble expressing our thoughts freely in the coming years.
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Old 08-27-2005, 05:28 AM   #156
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Quote:
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It's still protected speech in the US.
As I understand (from several other boards I checked) there is a very thin line. True threats are not protected speech. If Robertson would have put a fee on Chavez´ head, he clearly would have not been protected. Well, Club 700 is a Million Dollar enterprise that has the ability to purchase whatever they need to conduct an assassination.

"The Supreme Court has stated that speech is generally protected unless it falls into a limited number of exceptions. The categories of unprotected speech include obscenity, libel, fighting words, child pornography and inciting speech. Although the Supreme Court in Watts v. United States, stated in dicta that threats are not protected speech, it is not a well defined exception. The courts have seldom utilized a "true threat" analysis (...)

Brandenburg v. Ohio

In Brandenburg, the defendant, a leader of the Ku Klux Klan, was charged with violating Ohio’s Criminal Syndicalism Statute that forbade the advocacy of crime or violence as a means of accomplishing political reform. The Supreme Court held the statute was unconstitutional as a violation of the First Amendment. The Court developed a new test that is thought of as a combination of the Holmes and Hand tests that functions as an even greater protection of speech. The Court’s new test for proscribing speech that advocated the use of force or crime is broken down into four requirements. The four prongs include (1) the speaker must have ‘specifically intended’ the words to bring about a particular lawless or violent result (2) the words must be ‘directed to’ inciting or producing violent or lawless action (3) the lawlessness or violence contemplated must be likely to actually result from the speech and (4) the lawlessness or violence must be likely to occur in the ‘imminent’ future."

from: http://www.uiowa.edu/~cyberlaw/cls99.../olive416.html

next read? Patriot Act:

SEC. 808. DEFINITION OF FEDERAL CRIME OF TERRORISM.

Section 2332b of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in subsection (f), by inserting `and any violation of section 351(e), 844(e), 844(f)(1), 956(b), 1361, 1366(b), 1366(c), 1751(e), 2152, or 2156 of this title,' before `and the Secretary'; and

(2) in subsection (g)(5)(B), by striking clauses (i) through (iii) and inserting the following:

`(i) section 32 (relating to destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities), 37 (relating to violence at international airports), 81 (relating to arson within special maritime and territorial jurisdiction), 175 or 175b (relating to biological weapons), 229 (relating to chemical weapons), subsection (a), (b), (c), or (d) of section 351 (relating to congressional, cabinet, and Supreme Court assassination and kidnaping), 831 (relating to nuclear materials), 842(m) or (n) (relating to plastic explosives), 844(f)(2) or (3) (relating to arson and bombing of Government property risking or causing death), 844(i) (relating to arson and bombing of property used in interstate commerce), 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a Federal facility with a dangerous weapon), 956(a)(1) (relating to conspiracy to murder, kidnap, or maim persons abroad), 1030(a)(1) (relating to protection of computers), 1030(a)(5)(A)(i) resulting in damage as defined in 1030(a)(5)(B)(ii) through (v) (relating to protection of computers), 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the United States), 1116 (relating to murder or manslaughter of foreign officials, official guests, or internationally protected persons), 1203 (relating to hostage taking), 1362 (relating to destruction of communication lines, stations, or systems), 1363 (relating to injury to buildings or property within special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States), 1366(a) (relating to destruction of an energy facility), 1751(a), (b), (c), or (d) (relating to Presidential and Presidential staff assassination and kidnaping), 1992 (relating to wrecking trains), 1993 (relating to terrorist attacks and other acts of violence against mass transportation systems), 2155 (relating to destruction of national defense materials, premises, or utilities), 2280 (relating to violence against maritime navigation), 2281 (relating to violence against maritime fixed platforms), 2332 (relating to certain homicides and other violence against United States nationals occurring outside of the United States), 2332a (relating to use of weapons of mass destruction), 2332b (relating to acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries), 2339 (relating to harboring terrorists), 2339A (relating to providing material support to terrorists), 2339B (relating to providing material support to terrorist organizations), or 2340A (relating to torture) of this title;

`(ii) section 236 (relating to sabotage of nuclear facilities or fuel) of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284); or`(iii) section 46502 (relating to aircraft piracy), the second sentence of section 46504 (relating to assault on a flight crew with a dangerous weapon), section 46505(b)(3) or (c) (relating to explosive or incendiary devices, or endangerment of human life by means of weapons, on aircraft), section 46506 if homicide or attempted homicide is involved (relating to application of certain criminal laws to acts on aircraft), or section 60123(b) (relating to destruction of interstate gas or hazardous liquid pipeline facility) of title 49.'.
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Old 08-27-2005, 09:36 AM   #157
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I don't think what he said fits into any of those categories.
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Old 08-27-2005, 10:03 AM   #158
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In past precedent, the line between "free speech" and "inciting a riot" was often in the details of what was said, not the essence. The "essence" of what Robertson said was that he wanted Chavez to be assassinated. The "details" of what he said is that U.S. military should go in and assassinate him. It would be very different if Robertson told his "700 Club" viewers to amass an army and fly down to Venezuela and kill him; that would be "inciting a riot."

Analyzing the details and applying it to past precedent would show that Robertson has merely exercised (rather offensive) freedom of speech. He will not--and should not--be prosecuted for it.

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Old 08-28-2005, 01:18 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Analyzing the details and applying it to past precedent would show that Robertson has merely exercised (rather offensive) freedom of speech. He will not--and should not--be prosecuted for it.

Melon
Alright, now that I know the American rules, I´ll advocate to kill Robertson when I come to the U.S. next time. Just for fun -no serious Christian would ever think of doing so, right. Maybe the Nation of Islam can take him out

Basically I´m all for free speech. It has a totally liberating affect when one can run around provoking others.
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Old 08-28-2005, 02:39 AM   #160
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Pfft, bugger Robertson with a pitchfork ~ whats he doing going around giving realpolitik advice to the world, you wouldn't want the world expecting that bullet,
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Old 08-28-2005, 02:45 AM   #161
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Pfft, bugger Robertson with a pitchfork ~ whats he doing going around giving realpolitik advice to the world, you wouldn't want the world expecting that bullet,
A pitchfork is a brilliant idea
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Old 08-28-2005, 02:50 AM   #162
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Seeing as how deaths like that have been inflicted upon homosexuals by theofascists of various creeds plenty of times over the last thousand years I think that such a fate could be wryly amusing in a horrific and brutal murderous sort of way.
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Old 08-28-2005, 03:09 AM   #163
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Venezuela’s Chavez Says Pat Robertson Expresses Wishes of U.S. Elite

By: Bernardo Delgado - Venezuelanalysis.com
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1734

Venezuela's President Chavez in his first extended comments about Pat Robertson's call for his assassination.

Caracas, Venezuela, August 27, 2005—Venezuela’s President Chavez, in his first extended response to Reverend Pat Robertson’s call for Chavez’s assassination, said that Robertson expresses “the desire of the elite that governs the U.S.” Chavez added that this was nothing new because there is plenty of evidence that the U.S. supported plots for his assassination.

Chavez made the remarks during a ceremony in which the government paid its debt of back pay and retirement benefits to university employees that had accumulated during the years 1999 to 2001.

Early in the week (...)

According to Chavez, the dominant political and economic classes of the U.S. are “entering a phase of desperation now, at the beginning of the 21st century,” which is why they are interested in resorting to acts such as assassination. Chavez also mentioned that the Fox New Channel had presented a former CIA agent, who said, “one must put an end to Chavez before he puts an end to us.”

With regard to the U.S. government’s official response to Pat Robertson, Chavez said, that the U.S. “has not taken any action. What would happen here in Venezuela if someone gets on television asking my government to assassinate the president of the U.S.?”

The only official reactions from the Bush administration have come from State Department spokesperson Sean McCormack, who called Pat Robertson’s remarks “inappropriate” and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who said that Robertson’s remarks were those of a “private citizen” and that political assassinations are not something that the Defense Department does.

“This process will not be turned back. Everyone here knows what they have to do; they will not have to do anything else other than to continue moving the Bolivarian Revolution forward.” He went on to say that if the U.S. were to break the rules, then Venezuelans “will not be obliged to follow the rules of the game; they will have to break them too.”

Venezuela Suspends Permits for Foreign Preachers

Venezuela’s head of the Justice and Interior Ministry’s religious affairs unit, Carlos Gonzalez, announced yesterday that Venezuela would suspend the authorization of permits for foreign preachers while the government reviews and tightens existing regulations on preachers already in Venezuela.

According to Gonzalez, his department had been considering this move for a while, but Pat Robertson’s declarations “have made us speed things up.”
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Old 08-28-2005, 07:52 AM   #164
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Bring on the pitchforks!!!
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Old 08-28-2005, 08:34 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
Alright, now that I know the American rules, I´ll advocate to kill Robertson when I come to the U.S. next time. Just for fun
The other side of the coin is that foreign nationals are generally given less leeway, and if you generated enough press attention, you'd probably get deported.

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