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Old 09-14-2004, 06:30 AM   #121
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Originally posted by Popmartijn


BTW, anyone wants to bet when the first killings with these weapons occur? I wanted to say today, but I'll take a conservative guess and say this week.

I'd say over the weekend
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Old 09-14-2004, 09:11 AM   #122
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Restrictions on personal freedoms, in such limited context, are not uncommon as long as they are well defined, needed, and give individuals an option (i.e., you don't have to go through the metal detector at the airport - you can take a bus instead).
Perhaps a compromise can be reached, then. The sale of assault weapons would be allowed, but their owners would have to store and use them at the firing range of their choice. That way they could have the enjoyment of firing the gun, and the rest of us would be a little safer. If someone didn't want to abide by this restriction then they could buy a different, non-banned gun.
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Old 09-14-2004, 09:18 AM   #123
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I think you are on the right track....
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Old 09-14-2004, 10:23 AM   #124
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From what I understand many of the gun manufacturers got around the assault weapons ban by renaming and/or simply modifying their existing models.

I find it incredible that a government (mine) would not resign this legislation. A right to bear arms is one thing, when it is an automatic weapon, it is ridiculous.

Is an automatic rifle not a weapon of mass destruction? In one round I can murder more people outside my office than most states have in a year.

If I am allowed to own one of these guns, why am I not allowed to own a bomb that can kill the same number of people?

I am in shock.
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Old 09-14-2004, 10:29 AM   #125
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Does owning an assault weapon automatically mean you will use it to kill people?
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Old 09-14-2004, 10:35 AM   #126
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Does owning a nuclear bomb automatically mean you will use it to kill people? Does bringing a box cutter on an airplane automatically mean you will use it to hijack the airplane? Is the risk worth the benefit?
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Old 09-14-2004, 10:40 AM   #127
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Should automobiles travel faster than 15 MPH? Is the risk worth the benefit?
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Old 09-14-2004, 10:42 AM   #128
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Yes. Are assault weapons as useful as automobiles?
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Old 09-14-2004, 10:50 AM   #129
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Interesting. Over 17,000 deaths, nearly 3 Million injuries, no constitutional right to own a car.....


We can go around in circles forever on this. I would be just as happy to have the ban in place as anyone else. But the thought process that gets us there is uneven and unprincipled.
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Old 09-14-2004, 11:05 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Interesting. Over 17,000 deaths, nearly 3 Million injuries, no constitutional right to own a car.....
But you have to earn a license in order to drive a car. At least, I hope they aren't giving them away in the USA...

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Old 09-14-2004, 11:18 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Interesting. Over 17,000 deaths, nearly 3 Million injuries, no constitutional right to own a car.....


We can go around in circles forever on this. I would be just as happy to have the ban in place as anyone else. But the thought process that gets us there is uneven and unprincipled.
I asked for a comparison of the benefits, but you gave me the risk.

I don't think that applying a risk/benefit analysis to determine a ban is uneven or unprincipled. If you can make the case that free access to assault weapons is as beneficial to society as access to cars is, then I'll agree that the ban on assault weapons shouldn't exist.
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Old 09-14-2004, 11:40 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThatGuy
I asked for a comparison of the benefits, but you gave me the risk.

I don't think that applying a risk/benefit analysis to determine a ban is uneven or unprincipled. If you can make the case that free access to assault weapons is as beneficial to society as access to cars is, then I'll agree that the ban on assault weapons shouldn't exist.
I don't need to show the benefit of free access because I already have a right to free access. You have to show how a limitation can be carefully crafted to eliminate the risks (unlawful use) while not depriving the rights for lawful citizens.
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Old 09-14-2004, 11:41 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally posted by Popmartijn
But you have to earn a license in order to drive a car. At least, I hope they aren't giving them away in the USA...

Take our test - it is hard not to pass....
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Old 09-14-2004, 11:42 AM   #134
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Originally posted by nbcrusaderI don't need to show the benefit of free access because I already have a right to free access. You have to show how a limitation can be carefully crafted to eliminate the risks (unlawful use) while not depriving the rights for lawful citizens.
You don't have the right to free access any more than I have the right to completely free speech. I think that the laws regarding the limitation of freedom of speech were made using the risk/benefit analysis I mentioned earlier. Otherwise why limit speech at all?
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Old 09-14-2004, 12:44 PM   #135
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This raises an interesting question: if one must take a test to drive a car, but not to own a gun, why the inconsistency? Should there be a licensing test for guns? (I would not be opposed to this.)
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