Merged: Anti-war protesters are going too far + should be kept quiet
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Scarletwine
New Yorker
Yes it is cut and pasted.
And it is incineratory, but that's what they wrote. I should have edited that part. I was just informing about the rally. I don't agree with everything each speaker or person helping to put on the rally says.
Actually after a decade or more under Sadaam and while he was fighting Iran, Iraq was wealthy. It wasn't until sanctions happened that they began to starve. I'm not stating he didn't cause more suffering to his people, while building palaces ect.
Break time. Night all.
And it is incineratory, but that's what they wrote. I should have edited that part. I was just informing about the rally. I don't agree with everything each speaker or person helping to put on the rally says.
Actually after a decade or more under Sadaam and while he was fighting Iran, Iraq was wealthy. It wasn't until sanctions happened that they began to starve. I'm not stating he didn't cause more suffering to his people, while building palaces ect.
Break time. Night all.
Anti-war protesters are going too far
While the majority of those who are anti-war are not causing any sort of disruption and are quietly and peacefuly disenting, there is a small but very vocal fragment of these anti-war protesters who are causing huge problems in many major cities. there is a protest planned for tommorow, 3/27, here in new york that absolutely sickens me. their plan is to have "surprise" protests with the main goal of disrupting traffic by lying down hand-in-hand in the middle of busy intersections, much like what was seen in san francisco a few days ago. this is going too far. a person's right to protest is one thing, using that protest to create a logistical nightmare for the city, putting themselves, the cops and millions of innocent bistanders in jeopardy. nyc has a population of 8.5 million, 2.5 million of whom live in manhattan. durring an average workday the population of manhattan baloons to over 5 million. a friend of mine who's an emt in manhattan says they get an average of 6-7 calls for people having heartattacks a day. now let's say some old lady on 81st and york has a heartattack tommorow... but these protesters just happened to pick a nearby intersection as one of their places to have a protest, 'causing gridlock in the area. the delay causes the ambulance to not get to the woman in time. and that's just one life... what happens if there's a terrorist attack somewhere in manhattan while these people are blocking intersections and causing gridlock? then what? one of the miracles of 9/11, why only 3,000 died, is because of the fast action and response by the policemen and firemen. that sounds horrific to say... only 3000... but the towers had a capacity of 50,000 people. they were about half full at the time of the attacks. how many more people would have died if the emergency response teams couldn't get there fast enough because there were people causing gridlock in the city? and i'm not even mentioning the fact that these mass gatherings present a rather attractive target themselves for terrorists. i may not agree with what they're saying, but i 100% agree with their right to protest. but having the right to protest does not give you the right to reek havoc throughout a city
While the majority of those who are anti-war are not causing any sort of disruption and are quietly and peacefuly disenting, there is a small but very vocal fragment of these anti-war protesters who are causing huge problems in many major cities. there is a protest planned for tommorow, 3/27, here in new york that absolutely sickens me. their plan is to have "surprise" protests with the main goal of disrupting traffic by lying down hand-in-hand in the middle of busy intersections, much like what was seen in san francisco a few days ago. this is going too far. a person's right to protest is one thing, using that protest to create a logistical nightmare for the city, putting themselves, the cops and millions of innocent bistanders in jeopardy. nyc has a population of 8.5 million, 2.5 million of whom live in manhattan. durring an average workday the population of manhattan baloons to over 5 million. a friend of mine who's an emt in manhattan says they get an average of 6-7 calls for people having heartattacks a day. now let's say some old lady on 81st and york has a heartattack tommorow... but these protesters just happened to pick a nearby intersection as one of their places to have a protest, 'causing gridlock in the area. the delay causes the ambulance to not get to the woman in time. and that's just one life... what happens if there's a terrorist attack somewhere in manhattan while these people are blocking intersections and causing gridlock? then what? one of the miracles of 9/11, why only 3,000 died, is because of the fast action and response by the policemen and firemen. that sounds horrific to say... only 3000... but the towers had a capacity of 50,000 people. they were about half full at the time of the attacks. how many more people would have died if the emergency response teams couldn't get there fast enough because there were people causing gridlock in the city? and i'm not even mentioning the fact that these mass gatherings present a rather attractive target themselves for terrorists. i may not agree with what they're saying, but i 100% agree with their right to protest. but having the right to protest does not give you the right to reek havoc throughout a city
Natztar
The Fly
I have to second that about the protesting thing. I think America's doing the right thing... I'm not sure if I'm all the way pro-war yet, because I hate killing ... and I'm not even pro the death penalty. But what I've heard Hussein do to his people is so horrific it just gotta be stopped, really.
elevated soul
Babyface
its pointless protesting about this war, i mean they arent gunna stop fighting now!
mad1
ONE love, blood, life
I have sympathy, because we had the same disruption here.....ok, so it was not as serious as this War.........but sure when bands werent allowed down Garvaghy, they used to take certain busy roads, and even during busy traffic time, stand along the road protesting for like an hour or whatever before clearing off.
NOT the same thing and certainly wont be even halfway to what you lot will have.....but still, I know the havoc it causes.....
And for those who risked going through, had their cars bashed.
I agree though, Anti-War protesters should NOT create havoc in such a busy busy city...........I think its possibly because they are getting desperate about the War.........Im pretty sure u all know what I mean by that................
NOT the same thing and certainly wont be even halfway to what you lot will have.....but still, I know the havoc it causes.....
And for those who risked going through, had their cars bashed.
I agree though, Anti-War protesters should NOT create havoc in such a busy busy city...........I think its possibly because they are getting desperate about the War.........Im pretty sure u all know what I mean by that................
oliveu2cm
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
I am glad to see this thread
After speaking with a woman in my graduate class last night, I am sickened by what some assholes are doing.
She is a Muslim and teaches at an elementary school with a predominate Muslim population.
There are people lining up outside the school grounds and YELLING at the children. Pointing at them and calling THEM terrorists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These young children have enough to deal with I'm sure with their own peers. I can't IMAGINE this, and as I told my friend, it sickens, disgusts & embarrasses me.
IMO, those adults who are yelling at the children are terrorists themselves. SHAME on them.
After speaking with a woman in my graduate class last night, I am sickened by what some assholes are doing.
She is a Muslim and teaches at an elementary school with a predominate Muslim population.
There are people lining up outside the school grounds and YELLING at the children. Pointing at them and calling THEM terrorists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These young children have enough to deal with I'm sure with their own peers. I can't IMAGINE this, and as I told my friend, it sickens, disgusts & embarrasses me.
IMO, those adults who are yelling at the children are terrorists themselves. SHAME on them.
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
headache
thats too bad.
oliveu2-
that is also too bad.
db9
thats too bad.
oliveu2-
that is also too bad.
db9
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
I don't have a source for it, but I heard some protesters threw ACID in the face of police officers somewhere-thankfully their face shields protected them.
And exactly-what if God forbid there was a terrorist attack-and also people on a daily basis who need police and/or fire, ambulance services.
These protests could end up costing LIVES, which is supposedly what these protesters are railing against.
And that's DISGUSTING Olive-sadly there will always be a group of sickos like that
And exactly-what if God forbid there was a terrorist attack-and also people on a daily basis who need police and/or fire, ambulance services.
These protests could end up costing LIVES, which is supposedly what these protesters are railing against.
And that's DISGUSTING Olive-sadly there will always be a group of sickos like that
mad1
ONE love, blood, life
..........I am now thinking that lots of Protesters are making a war among themselves with the cops....and they are supposed to be against it!
womanfish
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
MrsSpringsteen said:I don't have a source for it, but I heard some protesters threw ACID in the face of police officers somewhere-thankfully their face shields protected them.
And exactly-what if God forbid there was a terrorist attack-and also people on a daily basis who need police and/or fire, ambulance services.
These protests could end up costing LIVES, which is supposedly what these protesters are railing against.
And that's DISGUSTING Olive-sadly there will always be a group of sickos like that
The acid incident was in my good ol' home state of Oregon. Portland was the city. Also 2 other police officers needed medical attention, trash and trashcans were strewn through the streets, and traffic was blocked and bridge shut down for almost 11 hours because of protestors sitting in the street.
YellowKite
War Child
Re: Anti-war protesters are going too far
There is a small but very powerful fragment of Americans who are causing a great disruption in many cities. Namely the Bush Jr administration and any city in Iraq.
There are always a few who ruin it for the rest of us.
Headache in a Suitcase said:
There is a small but very powerful fragment of Americans who are causing a great disruption in many cities. Namely the Bush Jr administration and any city in Iraq.
There are always a few who ruin it for the rest of us.
nbcrusader
Blue Crack Addict
thanks for your very thoughtful response to the issue of protesters causing havoc in the cities... and btw, bush is not a junior... different middle name.
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YellowKite
War Child
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Please - sarcasm is apparently lost on you. I am well aware Dubya is not a jr and as long as they aren't hurting anyone they can protest however they want. Do you have this big a fit when the president or other public figure come to town and sends all the traffic into further chaos? Or is it just because these people don't agree with you?
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
Smokey said:
Your post is thoughtful, to the point, brief, polite, and considerate.
You may not last in here.
Screaming Flower
ONE love, blood, life
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2001
- Messages
- 11,961
lol martha. 
welcome to the chaos known as FYM smokey.
welcome to the chaos known as FYM smokey.
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
For the anti-war crowd-
Al-Qaeda fighting with Iraqis, British claim
March 28 2003, 9:41 AM
Near Basra, Iraq: British military interrogators claim captured Iraqi soldiers have told them that al-Qaeda terrorists are fighting on the side of Saddam Hussein's forces against allied troops near Basra.
At least a dozen members of Osama bin Laden's network are in the town of Az Zubayr where they are coordinating grenade and gun attacks on coalition positions, according to the Iraqi prisoners of war.
It was believed that last night (Thursday) British forces were preparing a military strike on the base where the al-Qaeda unit was understood to be holed up.
A senior British military source inside Iraq said: "The information we have received from PoWs today is that an al-Qaeda cell may be operating in Az Zubayr. There are possibly around a dozen of them and that is obviously a matter of concern to us."
If terrorists are found, it would be the first proof of a direct link between Saddam's regime and Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the 11 September attacks on New York and Washington.
The connection would give credibility to the argument that Tony Blair used to justify war against Saddam - a "nightmare scenario" in which he might eventually pass weapons of mass destruction to terrorists.
On Wednesday Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, said the coalition had solid evidence that senior al-Qaeda operatives have visited Baghdad in the past.
Rumsfeld said Saddam had an "evolving" relationship with the terror network.
The presence of fanatical al-Qaeda terrorists would go some way to explaining the continued resistance to US and British forces in southern Iraq, an area dominated by Shi'ite Muslims traditionally hostile to
Saddam's regime.
Heavy fighting continued around the besieged city of Basra yesterday after British forces destroyed 14 Iraqi tanks which had struck out towards the Al Faw peninsula.
Military commanders have decided against launching an attack on Basra because of fears the operation would result in a Stalingrad-style street battle.
It is estimated the Iraqi military forces in the area have been reduced to 30 per cent fighting strength but have now embedded themselves within civilian buildings in the city.
Armed raids have destroyed transmitters and taken state radio and television off the air in Basra and effectively cutting off its communications with Baghdad.
British tanks from the 7th Armoured Brigade, the Desert Rats, could be sent into Basra if there is a sudden civilian uprising against Saddam's forces.
Last night, forces around the city heard loud explosions as coalition helicopter gunships were sent into the area.
This is a pooled despatch from Gethin Chamberlain of The Scotsman.
Al-Qaeda fighting with Iraqis, British claim
March 28 2003, 9:41 AM
Near Basra, Iraq: British military interrogators claim captured Iraqi soldiers have told them that al-Qaeda terrorists are fighting on the side of Saddam Hussein's forces against allied troops near Basra.
At least a dozen members of Osama bin Laden's network are in the town of Az Zubayr where they are coordinating grenade and gun attacks on coalition positions, according to the Iraqi prisoners of war.
It was believed that last night (Thursday) British forces were preparing a military strike on the base where the al-Qaeda unit was understood to be holed up.
A senior British military source inside Iraq said: "The information we have received from PoWs today is that an al-Qaeda cell may be operating in Az Zubayr. There are possibly around a dozen of them and that is obviously a matter of concern to us."
If terrorists are found, it would be the first proof of a direct link between Saddam's regime and Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the 11 September attacks on New York and Washington.
The connection would give credibility to the argument that Tony Blair used to justify war against Saddam - a "nightmare scenario" in which he might eventually pass weapons of mass destruction to terrorists.
On Wednesday Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, said the coalition had solid evidence that senior al-Qaeda operatives have visited Baghdad in the past.
Rumsfeld said Saddam had an "evolving" relationship with the terror network.
The presence of fanatical al-Qaeda terrorists would go some way to explaining the continued resistance to US and British forces in southern Iraq, an area dominated by Shi'ite Muslims traditionally hostile to
Saddam's regime.
Heavy fighting continued around the besieged city of Basra yesterday after British forces destroyed 14 Iraqi tanks which had struck out towards the Al Faw peninsula.
Military commanders have decided against launching an attack on Basra because of fears the operation would result in a Stalingrad-style street battle.
It is estimated the Iraqi military forces in the area have been reduced to 30 per cent fighting strength but have now embedded themselves within civilian buildings in the city.
Armed raids have destroyed transmitters and taken state radio and television off the air in Basra and effectively cutting off its communications with Baghdad.
British tanks from the 7th Armoured Brigade, the Desert Rats, could be sent into Basra if there is a sudden civilian uprising against Saddam's forces.
Last night, forces around the city heard loud explosions as coalition helicopter gunships were sent into the area.
This is a pooled despatch from Gethin Chamberlain of The Scotsman.
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
More for the anti-war bunch..
Dance little protesters dance
-
Good job guys-
HOMELAND INSECURITY
Al-Qaida to use anti-war rallies as cover?
FBI bulletin warns of security-surveillance tactics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: March 27, 2003
5:00 p.m. Eastern
By Paul Sperry
? 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
WASHINGTON ? Al-Qaida operatives may mix in with anti-war demonstrators here and in other major cities to secretly monitor security procedures around landmarks and buildings, the FBI warns.
According to an FBI bulletin obtained by WorldNetDaily, al-Qaida terrorists plotting U.S. attacks may employ "sophisticated surveillance techniques" to avoid detection by law enforcement.
These techniques may include using "video recorders" and posing as "demonstrators" to gather information about security patterns and procedures at potential terrorist targets, says the bulletin, recently distributed to law enforcement and military security personnel by the FBI Washington Field Office as part of the Awareness of National Security Issues and Response, or ANSIR, program.
"Al-Qaida operations have been characterized by meticulous planning, a focus on inflicting mass casualties, and multiple, simultaneous suicide attacks," the FBI alert says. "Operatives are highly trained in basic and sophisticated surveillance techniques, posing challenges for counterterrorism and security forces in identifying terrorist surveillance."
As the nation remains on high alert for terrorism, the bulletin advises the security community to be on the look-out for the following activities, which may indicate al-Qaida terrorist surveillance:
"Unusual or prolonged interest in security measures or personnel, entry points and access controls, or perimeter barriers such as fences or walls."
"Unusual behavior such as staring or quickly looking away from personnel or vehicles entering or leaving designated facilities or parking areas."
"Observation of security reaction drills or procedures."
"Increase in anonymous telephone or e-mail threats to facilities in conjunction with suspected surveillance incidents ? indicating possible surveillance of threat-reaction procedures."
"Foot surveillance involving two or three individuals working together."
"Mobile surveillance using bicycles, scooters, motorcycles, cars, trucks, sport-utility vehicles, boats or small aircraft."
"Prolonged static surveillance using operatives disguised as panhandlers, demonstrators, shoe shiners, food or flower vendors, news agents, or street sweepers not previously seen in the area."
"Discreet use of still cameras, video recorders or note-taking at non-tourist-type locations."
"Use of multiple sets of clothing, identifications, or the use of sketching materials (paper, pencils, etc.)."
"Questioning of security or facility personnel."
An FBI counterterrorism agent here says that although the bureau is not aware of any past cases of al-Qaida agents disguising themselves as demonstrators to gauge police response, they may use large-scale anti-war rallies here and in New York as cover for such surveillance activities.
The New York Police Department recently dispatched heavily armed SWAT teams to patrol buildings and tourist areas at random times to throw off al-Qaida operatives casing such sites and monitoring security patterns there.
DB9
Dance little protesters dance
-Good job guys
-HOMELAND INSECURITY
Al-Qaida to use anti-war rallies as cover?
FBI bulletin warns of security-surveillance tactics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: March 27, 2003
5:00 p.m. Eastern
By Paul Sperry
? 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
WASHINGTON ? Al-Qaida operatives may mix in with anti-war demonstrators here and in other major cities to secretly monitor security procedures around landmarks and buildings, the FBI warns.
According to an FBI bulletin obtained by WorldNetDaily, al-Qaida terrorists plotting U.S. attacks may employ "sophisticated surveillance techniques" to avoid detection by law enforcement.
These techniques may include using "video recorders" and posing as "demonstrators" to gather information about security patterns and procedures at potential terrorist targets, says the bulletin, recently distributed to law enforcement and military security personnel by the FBI Washington Field Office as part of the Awareness of National Security Issues and Response, or ANSIR, program.
"Al-Qaida operations have been characterized by meticulous planning, a focus on inflicting mass casualties, and multiple, simultaneous suicide attacks," the FBI alert says. "Operatives are highly trained in basic and sophisticated surveillance techniques, posing challenges for counterterrorism and security forces in identifying terrorist surveillance."
As the nation remains on high alert for terrorism, the bulletin advises the security community to be on the look-out for the following activities, which may indicate al-Qaida terrorist surveillance:
"Unusual or prolonged interest in security measures or personnel, entry points and access controls, or perimeter barriers such as fences or walls."
"Unusual behavior such as staring or quickly looking away from personnel or vehicles entering or leaving designated facilities or parking areas."
"Observation of security reaction drills or procedures."
"Increase in anonymous telephone or e-mail threats to facilities in conjunction with suspected surveillance incidents ? indicating possible surveillance of threat-reaction procedures."
"Foot surveillance involving two or three individuals working together."
"Mobile surveillance using bicycles, scooters, motorcycles, cars, trucks, sport-utility vehicles, boats or small aircraft."
"Prolonged static surveillance using operatives disguised as panhandlers, demonstrators, shoe shiners, food or flower vendors, news agents, or street sweepers not previously seen in the area."
"Discreet use of still cameras, video recorders or note-taking at non-tourist-type locations."
"Use of multiple sets of clothing, identifications, or the use of sketching materials (paper, pencils, etc.)."
"Questioning of security or facility personnel."
An FBI counterterrorism agent here says that although the bureau is not aware of any past cases of al-Qaida agents disguising themselves as demonstrators to gauge police response, they may use large-scale anti-war rallies here and in New York as cover for such surveillance activities.
The New York Police Department recently dispatched heavily armed SWAT teams to patrol buildings and tourist areas at random times to throw off al-Qaida operatives casing such sites and monitoring security patterns there.
DB9
deep
Blue Crack Addict
paranoia
will distroy ya
will distroy ya
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
so will complacency.....
long
live
Danny
Pearl.
dB9
long
live
Danny
Pearl.
dB9
Perhaps one of the most dangerous and destructive ideas I've seen in a long, long while is this idea that al Qaeda, terrorism, or whatever else can be an excuse to fundamentally topple our civil liberties; specifically in this case an American Sovereign's right to peaceful protest.
If, in the name of safety and 'security' we hand over our civil liberties, then we have fundamentally lost the very thing that is so precious to us- the very thing we have fought and are fighting for.
What kind of life would we lead, then? How can this type of thinking not eventually lead to a democratic police state? The problem? Terrorism! The solution? Unfortunately, it's becoming more and more clear that the 'solution' is looking like a police state. It is not the America the Constituion represents.
The article entitled HOMELAND SECURITY is such propaganda of the sickest kind. The FBI has been putting out crap like this for a long time. Yes, there are indeed real concerns there, but I wonder just how far they are willing to go.
If, in the name of safety and 'security' we hand over our civil liberties, then we have fundamentally lost the very thing that is so precious to us- the very thing we have fought and are fighting for.
What kind of life would we lead, then? How can this type of thinking not eventually lead to a democratic police state? The problem? Terrorism! The solution? Unfortunately, it's becoming more and more clear that the 'solution' is looking like a police state. It is not the America the Constituion represents.
The article entitled HOMELAND SECURITY is such propaganda of the sickest kind. The FBI has been putting out crap like this for a long time. Yes, there are indeed real concerns there, but I wonder just how far they are willing to go.
diamond
ONE love, blood, life
well last time i checked ..umm i think our country was pretty vulernable until 9-11-01.
the country is a bit safer now...
i consider it a victory everytime a terrorist is
nabbed
everytime a plot is thwarted and
everytime were able to sleep peacefully thru the night.
Keep
Hope
Alive
While our nation is vulernable please dont endanger our nation's security by demanding your First Amendment Rights..
Go fight for the victim's of terrorists actions..
Long
Live
Danny
Pearl
Peace
Diamond
the country is a bit safer now...
i consider it a victory everytime a terrorist is
nabbed
everytime a plot is thwarted and
everytime were able to sleep peacefully thru the night.
Keep
Hope
Alive
While our nation is vulernable please dont endanger our nation's security by demanding your First Amendment Rights..
Go fight for the victim's of terrorists actions..
Long
Live
Danny
Pearl
Peace
Diamond
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diamond
ONE love, blood, life
1 Roll of Ducttape $5.00
1 Blackmarker $1.00
Shutting Marty's mouth up: priceless
diamond
bruno
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YellowKite
War Child
diamond said:
We are not safer. In fact, I bet we've created a lot more potential threats than ever.
And to ask us to give up our rights for any reason is like asking us to sit at the back of the bus.
Just because we have started a war it doesn't make it okay for the government to scare us into voting funding away from children, schools and other more important programs and to allow government to wear away at our rights.
It is even more appalling that some of us are wiling to do it and are asking others to follow suit.
Once we give away our rights then it might take no effort to give away our freedoms and it may take more than simple protesting to get them back.
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BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Complacency is sitting back while the Bu**sh** administration takes money from our schools. How is this making our country safer?
Complacency is sitting back while they pass laws that allow people to be sentenced without trial. You might be next.
Complacency is sitting back while your prez tries to sneak in as much of his religious beliefs that he can.
Complacency is following a man into war, which the UN couldn't back, when the reasoning was never concrete, and to watch him destroy foreign relationships.
So yeah you're right complaceny, will kill you.
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