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Old 09-22-2007, 11:59 AM   #61
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And more importantly, an uneven lack of punishment for the others involved.

Leaving them in jail plainly and simply is not justice.
The problem is, we generally agree, but I see it a different way. You think these thugs should be put back on the streets because other thugs were not punished equally. I say put all thugs in jail. That's equal justice, but don't let these go. They don't deserve it.

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It's not justice to have them in jail for this long for a school fight.
This needs to be destroyed. I am sick to death of everyone including activists calling this a 'school fight.' A fight is two guys, not six on one with one on the ground. That's a beating.

I also don't think you all get that no matter what started it all, there is no justification for the way the six reacted.

You also need to understand that my view of 'justice' in this is coming from a different place than yours because of what happened to my cousin. This has become personally hurtful to me and I don't care to discuss it further.
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Old 09-22-2007, 12:10 PM   #62
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Originally posted by Butterscotch
The problem is, we generally agree, but I see it a different way. You think these thugs should be put back on the streets because other thugs were not punished equally. I say put all thugs in jail. That's equal justice, but don't let these go. They don't deserve it.

This needs to be destroyed. I am sick to death of everyone including activists calling this a 'school fight.' A fight is two guys, not six on one with one on the ground. That's a beating.

I also don't think you all get that no matter what started it all, there is no justification for the way the six reacted.

You also need to understand that my view of 'justice' in this is coming from a different place than yours because of what happened to my cousin. This has become personally hurtful to me and I don't care to discuss it further.
That's not why I want them back "on the streets" (don't like the implications of the phrasing there). I think they should be finished with their sentences because it was A SCHOOL FIGHT. He was released that day. Give me a break. There's no justification for their actions, just as theirs no justification for that amount of time in jail for A SCHOOL FIGHT.

Calling them thugs is ridiculous. Using the term "on the streets" is ridiculous. How many of them even had a record before this? 1?
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Old 09-22-2007, 12:44 PM   #63
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Originally posted by phillyfan26



Calling them thugs is ridiculous. Using the term "on the streets" is ridiculous. How many of them even had a record before this? 1?
One of them

Battery - 12/25/2005
Criminal damage to property - 7/25/2006
Battery - 9/2006
Criminal damage to property - 9/2006


A fight where I went to school was 1 on 1

6 on 1 is a beating
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Old 09-22-2007, 01:19 PM   #64
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I think those six boys /should/ be getting jail time for ganging up on the other idiot - after all, they did basically gang up on him and beat the crap out of him, and he couldn't defend himself against six of them, no less.

And the other idiot and his little friends should likewise be in jail for /their/ part in this. That's the point, I think, of the whole series of events. You cannot underpunish one set of people and try to throw the other set under the jail. This whole thing would not have escalated if those idiot boys had not put three nooses in a tree. I mean, how could you possibly fail to understand the significance of nooses in a tree after black kids sat under a tree? I mean, I knew that meant 'lynching' when I was five. Are these kids that stupid? That means they really need to consider updating their standards of education. Really.
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Old 09-22-2007, 02:48 PM   #65
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Originally posted by toscano


One of them

Battery - 12/25/2005
Criminal damage to property - 7/25/2006
Battery - 9/2006
Criminal damage to property - 9/2006
This is why I think protests over the (relatively) high bail which was set in his case are unfounded. He has a substantial criminal record for a person of his age and frankly I don't think that the bail set was excessive in his case.
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Old 09-22-2007, 03:05 PM   #66
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Originally posted by toscano


One of them

Battery - 12/25/2005
Criminal damage to property - 7/25/2006
Battery - 9/2006
Criminal damage to property - 9/2006


A fight where I went to school was 1 on 1

6 on 1 is a beating
and a beating is not a lynching

and what do we really know about these previous charges?



if kicking someone is assault with a deadly weapon > with a life term? do sneakers really = deadly weapon like a gun, knife or baseball bat?
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Old 09-22-2007, 03:18 PM   #67
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Originally posted by anitram


This is why I think protests over the (relatively) high bail which was set in his case are unfounded. He has a substantial criminal record for a person of his age and frankly I don't think that the bail set was excessive in his case.

I found this and I don't know it the information is correct

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I believe when Bell, Bailey and Shaw came out of that store and Justin pointed the shotgun at him, the 3 kids “wrestled” it from him and later turned it over to the police. It has been a while since I read the details of that, but I do believe the 3 kids got charged with crimes. Perhaps the “battery” charge was due to the fighting over the shotgun and perhaps the shotgun was the “damaged property”. Many kids get into fights. In a racist town like Jena, I would not be surprised that the prior “criminal” charges were similiar to the thrumped up charges. Cospiracy to commit murder? If that were even a remote possibiltiy then the kids would have been choosing to spend their lives in jail, knowing a fight at school would get them arrested.
but that record, in that town
does not mean much to me
until we learn for sure what they represent
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Old 09-22-2007, 03:31 PM   #68
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Yes, but when bail is determined, the judge will look at the criminal record. He is not conducting an appeal hearing to see whether or not certain convictions contained in that record were wrongfully obtained. That is not his job. It is only his job to determine bail based on the information he has. That's why I don't believe that protests regarding the bail are grounded in much more than outrage - I don't see how the person who determined the bail acted improperly in this situation.
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:00 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


and a beating is not a lynching

It's also not murder or rape or a traffic ticket, but none of those happened here.

Quote:
Originally posted by deep

and what do we really know about these previous charges?

I don't know what "we" know, I know what I was easily able to find on the internet.

The question was asked if any had a criminal record, it was answered.


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Originally posted by deep


if kicking someone is assault with a deadly weapon > with a life term? do sneakers really = deadly weapon like a gun, knife or baseball bat?
Is there a point here ? Was a gun, knife or baseball bat involved ? Was that part of the lynching you were referring to ?

A beating took place, it should be punished appropriately.

To free anyone involved is BS.

If a hate crime was deemed to have taken place, that too should be punished appropriately
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:14 PM   #70
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The point we have here is that it was not punished appropriately.

The comparison deep had from lynching was because it was earlier compared to lynching, though I think the comments were backed off of.

The fact that this kid went and left the hospital the same day speaks volumes.
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:22 PM   #71
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
The point we have here is that it was not punished appropriately.
No argument

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Originally posted by phillyfan26


The fact that this kid went and left the hospital the same day speaks volumes.
What does it say ? Does it negate the beating ?
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:32 PM   #72
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We're not saying they should have no punishment for the fight. We're saying it shouldn't be excessive. I think it currently is excessive.
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Old 09-22-2007, 11:18 PM   #73
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Originally posted by phillyfan26
We're not saying they should have no punishment for the fight. We're saying it shouldn't be excessive. I think it currently is excessive.
Such a simple point. I'm amazed people don't get this.

They should be punished, maybe even serve some time in the slammer, but the punishmet was out of proportion to the crime.
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Old 09-23-2007, 08:33 AM   #74
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You know, as I read this thread I'm reminded of the "Do cons & liberals think differently" thread. I think this is a perfect example. You have folks here discussing this, looking at the context in which the beating happened, and seeing a larger problem. No one is saying "The Jena 6 are innocent" or anything like that. Yet we have other people arguing (with themselves, presumably, as no one's claiming the Jena 6 are 100% innocent) that they are guilty and belong in prison, while refusing to acknowledge the blatant racism behind the punishments for the things that went on in Jena, on the part of the school board, police, and DA.

The only way you can excuse the authorities down there is if you either believe this particular school fight was an isolated incident, or you believe it's OK to base the degree of school punishment and legal charges on race.
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Old 09-23-2007, 01:40 PM   #75
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A SCHOOL FIGHT.


IT WAS NOT A SCHOOL FIGHT IT WAS A BEATING!!!! One on one is a fight. Six against one is no 'fight'!! It makes no difference if this happened at school, the mall, or someone's yard, six people attacked one and beat the shit out of him, they intended serious harm to him and could have killed him. That's a crime, not the petty little schoolyard 'fight' you're trying to make it out to be. Even in schools, when someone harms someone, it's punished like any other crime, not laughed off as a 'school fight.' This makes me sick.

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They should be punished, maybe even serve some time in the slammer, but the punishmet was out of proportion to the crime.
Exactly what I've been saying about all of this, including my cousin! Getting 20 years for defending an attack while he was repo-ing is extreme too, but you don't see 60,000 marching about that injustice.

What's the big deal now? They've already lowered the charges against the boys, and I am all for also punishing any white boys who did anything, even months after the fact.

Here's another scenario. Right now, I am extremely angry that a particular person I know has been harassing and threatening me, and no one will do anything about it. If I snapped and viciously attack this person, I will be arrested and put in jail on malicious wounding charges, probably even attempted murder. She's a white woman and so am I so at least I can't be charged with a 'hate' crime! No matter what someone did to piss you off, regardless of the past history, you cannot go around attacking people and if you do, you go to jail. What they did to you first doesn't make you a pitiful victim.

This happens quite frequently in domestic cases. One person will threaten and even hurt one and nothing is done, but when the other retaliates, it's a crime. This is families where everyone is the same color, but if you get black against white all of a sudden it's an international incident? Even in football, it's always the guy who retaliates who gets the penalty. We need to compare things objectively.
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