MERGED--> all Israel/Lebanon conflict discussion, Pt. II - Page 14 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-16-2006, 08:02 PM   #196
Blue Crack Addict
deep's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,507
Local Time: 05:30 AM
Originally posted by anitram
Israel is just not able to win a war of public relations.

Hezbollah , There they are with bulldozers to help the poor clear their villages.

The Israelis turn bulldozers into WMDs.

Do they earn their public opinion?

deep is offline  
Old 08-16-2006, 08:13 PM   #197
Rock n' Roll Doggie
angelordevil's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Inside a sound
Posts: 5,830
Local Time: 09:00 AM
Originally posted by trevster2k

America's vulnerability is tiny; theirs is almost total. It would
be worthwhile to offer both of them a commitment that the US will stop trying to overthrow their regimes, and leave their fate in the hands of their own peoples, in return for renouncing their nuclear weapons ambitions. It worked with Libya's Gaddafy, after all. What is truly astonishing is that this approach has simply not been tried with either North Korea or Iran.

This is a great point Dyer makes. It's a little Noam Chomsky-like in its idealism, but I'm at the point where I consider idealism to be an underutilized approach around the world.

Originally posted by deep

Do they earn their public opinion?

Do they even care about public opinion? I don't view it as being a controlling influence at all.

angelordevil is offline  
Old 08-16-2006, 08:54 PM   #198
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,435
Local Time: 12:30 PM
Another thing to think about here. Regarding Yolland's NYT article.

Hizbollah may be passing out the fliers and celebrating victory now, but this time they may find that regarding the civilian population, they may have bitten off more than they can chew, and that keeping the Lebanese government in thrall to them may work against them. Support for them may be running high now, but even in the south, where they are the Robin Hoods of the area, they won't be able to handle the logistical needs of the stricken people in this crisis. They built that network of social services during the '80's and '90's when Lebanon was rebuilding from the last war, but there was no overt pressure put upon them by the suffering populace to attend to their needs. They had the leisure and time and money to selctively build their network.

This time, however, their reported annaul $300 million "budget", courtesy of Iran, will be a drop in the bucket next to the staggering spectacle of a country where fully 1 million people (25% of the population or more) is dispersed or without homes; where roads, bridges, airports, the infrastructure, is destroyed; where even after the Red Cross leaves people going back to thier destroyed neighborhoods will be calling upon their former saviors Hizbollah to help them with more than welfare money, groceries, their electric bill, and their son's membership in the Lebanese Soccer League. If Hizbollah was seen as people's savior before, they will be looking to them to find them jobs so that their familes will not starve, etc. Saudi Arabia (we pray it is them and not Iran) offered Seniora $280 billion to rebuild the insfrastructure early in the war--curious that they can offer that at the drop of an eyelash but they haven't in 58 yrs offered to build decent homes for Palestinains in Lebanon so that while they're waiting for their State, they won't live like pigs?

To those who would be great, much responsibilty is given...we're now aobut to see Peter Parker's liite maxim proven right. Hizbollah can treat victims in its hospitals, but how will it continue to feed hundreds of thousands of people after the Red Cross has determined basic food and water needs are met? How to deal with the logistical nightmare of getting a country running again. The Saudis, Sunnis, I don't think they will want to deal with Hizbollah, Iran's proxy, no matter how incensed at us they are. So that glow may be gone for them.

And finally: I think it may be many weeks before Lebanese wake up and begin to sense that while Lebanon may rebuild the basics of its country, it will never go back to being what it was. The hope will be gone forever. The high-tech companies and Western "brand" names that once lined the Corniche in Beirut and gave, more than anything else, Lebanese the sense that they were finally becoming part of the world again, are not going to be coming back. Too dangerous. And even if Hizbollah convinces them that Isreal is to blame for this, it will always be on their minds that the next time Hizbollah tries anything, or even for no reason at all, Israel will do the same thing all over again. Horrible to say, Hizbollah has no air power, and people have seen that rocket attacks inside Isreal don't stop a bombardment. It could happen again. No matter what the Lebanese think of Israel, they will be just as angry at their former saviors. This time around, the Lebanese people may finally have had enough....they may not show it now, but in the future, Hizbollah may have to look to its laurels.

I imagine a lot of people coming home in their cars taking those Hizbollah leflets saying "we have won a smashing victory..thank you for your patience" and using them as toilet paper, becuase there is none, but to show how they feel. Coming home to find not only your house but neighborhood gone, and your business gone, so no job. It's up to them....this could swing either way....
Teta040 is offline  
Old 08-17-2006, 08:22 AM   #199
Blue Crack Addict
nbcrusader's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 04:30 AM
Originally posted by anitram
Israel is just not able to win a war of public relations. It's lost every single war/skirmish this way in the court of world opinion.

Hezbollah are a bunch of violent, uneducated thugs and they have better PR than Israel, the US and the entire western world. There they are, clearing rubble today with Iranian money, promising to pay people's rent for a year, buying furniture and moving bulldozers to help the poor clear their villages. The people of New Orleans are probably wondering WTF.

And now their king thug Nasrallah is some kind of hero in the Arab world.

It would be comic if it wasn't so tragic.
As a civilian militia, every loss can be painted as victimization. The images don't match the intentions and motives.

On the other side, Hezbollah can indiscriminately launch 200+ rockets at civilians, and unless one is killed, there are no images to match the intentions and motives of Hezbollah.

Having lived in a war zone, you can understand the difference. For many who have never seen military action, they can run with the deceptive images.
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 08-17-2006, 10:10 AM   #200
Blue Crack Addict
nbcrusader's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 04:30 AM
Cease Fire Farce

Here's a good recipe for future conflicts.

France Said to Want Only Symbolic Force

Countries that could contribute to an expanded U.N. peacekeeping force in Lebanon were gathering Thursday to find out how the troops will operate, and U.N. officials hoped many would commit soldiers.

France, meanwhile, wants to send a small, purely symbolic contingent to the force, and the United Nations is trying to convince French officials that such a decision would be devastating, a news report said Thursday.
Unless a peacekeeping force has the authority, capability and willingness to enforce a demilitarized zone, the cease fire only gives Hezbollah the opportunity to move more armaments into Southern Lebanon.

nbcrusader is offline  

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:30 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright ©