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Old 08-03-2006, 10:31 AM   #151
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One tragic story among so many..

By Michael Levenson, Globe Staff | August 3, 2006

NEWTON -- Twenty-six years ago, David Lelchook decided to leave Newton, the city where he was born, played baseball as a child, and captained his high school football team. He wanted to be with his new wife in Israel.

The couple eventually settled on a farm, Kibbutz Saar, just south of Lebanon. She worked at a local hospital. He drove a tractor, tending to rolling groves of pomelo, which is similar to grapefruit. He ate onions he plucked from the ground. He took in stray dogs.

He accepted the dangers of living in a region beset by violence. When Hezbollah rockets began pounding the area around the kibbutz, Lelchook, 52, told his family not to worry.

Yesterday Lelchook was killed, apparently struck by shrapnel from an exploding missile. He had been riding his bike as warning sirens wailed. Bonnie Rose Schulman, spokeswoman for the Israeli consulate in Boston, said Lelchook was struck while riding to a bomb shelter. A friend on the kibbutz said he might have been trying to bring some of his dogs to safety.

News of his death hit hard among those who knew him, in Israel and his former home. His mother, Doris, had been seeing friends at the Newton Senior Center when her other son called to report a family emergency. On the drive home, she heard a radio report of a man killed in northern Israel and prayed it wasn't her son.

``We worried," she said yesterday, as she flipped through photos of her son at her home in Newton Upper Falls. ``But we knew he was where he wanted to be."

Even as a young man, Lelchook was fascinated with the Middle East, said his brother, Alex, 55. At Cornell University, he sat in on meetings of a Palestinian student group.

``David I just think of as being a humanist," his brother said. ``He loved to meet people. He loved to find out about people."

He met his Israeli-born wife, Esther, during a trip to Israel. In 1980, shortly after they married, the two decided to move to the country and start a family.

``David moved because he felt that was the place for him to be," Alex Lelchook said.

Five years later, with two daughters, they moved to Kibbutz Saar, about 15 miles north of Haifa. David quickly developed a reputation as a tireless worker.

``He was a worker of unbelievable discipline, always in his overalls, spraying the citrus or doing other chores night and day," said Zohar Reches, 32, a factory manager at the kibbutz who was on the farm yesterday. ``He would never refuse you, if someone would ask [him], he would say yes."

He also stood out among the other Israeli-born farmers.

``We would always kid him about his `cool' American accent," Reches said. ``He spoke perfect Hebrew, but with an American accent."

Last week, as fighting continued to rage between Israel and Hezbollah, Lelchook told his mother that the missile attacks in his area had become ``vicious," she said.

She spoke to her son for the last time on Tuesday. Lelchook's wife and children, along with all but 70 of the 440 residents of the farm, had fled in recent days.

``We said that we hoped he would be safe, and why didn't he leave the kibbutz?" Doris Lelchook said. ``And he told us that he had to take care of his dogs there."

Yesterday, the family -- including Lelchook's daughters, Yael, 26, a physical therapy student in Israel, and Michal, 23, who was in Pittsburgh at the time of the attack, was planning to reunite for a funeral in Israel.

The family members said that if David Lelchook's death is to have meaning, the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah must end.

``There has to be peace," Doris Lelchook said.
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Old 08-03-2006, 10:34 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

Sadat is kind of a strange example, though?? I mean, the Arab League expelled Egypt after he made peace with Israel because they felt he'd betrayed pan-Arabism, and then Islamic Jihad assassinated him. Anyhow, pan-Arabism in the classic sense pretty much died with Nasser.


and sloppiness on my part too!

i meant Nasser, not Sadat.

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Old 08-03-2006, 10:38 AM   #153
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earnie Shavers


My argument all the way through this thread is that Israel are playing right into the terror groups hands, increasing, not diminishing, their support. You are right, this/these groups don't give a flying fuck about Palestinians, but it's handing them a cause on a platter. Then you have the US shipping bombs in for Israel to drop over the border and the story reads exactly as they want it to. They need to be sidelined, not strengthened. Taking away the cause takes away the power.

The big question is; how do Israel maintain the safety and security of it's citizens, while not handing another generation of support to the terrorists at the same time?


well said. i think this gets to the heart of what i feel the majority posters in this thread are thinking and feeling -- that Israel has a right to defend it's citizens from missiles, however the manner in which Israel chooses to defend itself (as probably any other state would) isn't necessarily the best course of action. what's sad is when some posters view nuance like this as some sort of evidence of anti-Semitism, or that any sort of questioning of the long-term efficacy of Israeli policy is stupid and idiotic because Israel has lots of tanks and guns and bombs and stuff.
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Old 08-03-2006, 10:43 AM   #154
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Getting them to recognize Israel would be a good first step.
This is a necessity in my book.
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Old 08-03-2006, 10:58 AM   #155
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I can't wait to get to school so I can actually learn more about the Middle East. Right now I'm not really up on my twentieth century Arab leaders.
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Old 08-03-2006, 12:09 PM   #156
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According to the NY Post. Bin Ladens son is helping corridinate attacks in Lebanon. http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews...ni_gittens.htm

"August 3, 2006 -- A son of Osama bin Laden has gone from Iran to Lebanon with the mission to organize terror attacks against Israel, it was reported yesterday.
Saad bin Laden, 27, one of the terror mastermind's eldest sons, was released by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard last Friday, according to the German daily Die Welt.

"From the Lebanese border, he has the task of building Islamist terror cells and preparing them to fight with Hezbollah," the paper said, quoting intelligence sources.

"Apparently, Tehran is counting on recruiting Lebanese refugees in Syria for the fight against Israel, using bin Laden's help," it added.

The young bin Laden was supposedly under house arrest in Iran."
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Old 08-03-2006, 12:19 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
According to the NY Post. Bin Ladens son is helping corridinate attacks in Lebanon. http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews...ni_gittens.htm

"August 3, 2006 -- A son of Osama bin Laden has gone from Iran to Lebanon with the mission to organize terror attacks against Israel, it was reported yesterday.
Saad bin Laden, 27, one of the terror mastermind's eldest sons, was released by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard last Friday, according to the German daily Die Welt.

"From the Lebanese border, he has the task of building Islamist terror cells and preparing them to fight with Hezbollah," the paper said, quoting intelligence sources.

"Apparently, Tehran is counting on recruiting Lebanese refugees in Syria for the fight against Israel, using bin Laden's help," it added.

The young bin Laden was supposedly under house arrest in Iran."
So now there's a direct tie between Al-Qaeda and Hezbollah. Birds of a feather flock together.
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Old 08-03-2006, 12:32 PM   #158
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So what does this mean now, that Israel has more of a right to bombard the hell out of Hezbulla which is in Lebanon and how Iran must pay for allowing Bin Ladens son free to spread destruction???
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Old 08-03-2006, 01:50 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
well said. i think this gets to the heart of what i feel the majority posters in this thread are thinking and feeling -- that Israel has a right to defend it's citizens from missiles, however the manner in which Israel chooses to defend itself (as probably any other state would) isn't necessarily the best course of action. what's sad is when some posters view nuance like this as some sort of evidence of anti-Semitism,
Your prior analysis was more reasoned here:

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
what is dispicable is those who would seek to draw connections between reasoned, rational critiques of military tactics with anti-Semitism.
Not all comments critical of Israel are either reasoned or rational.
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Old 08-03-2006, 02:11 PM   #160
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^ this post seems neither reasoned nor rational.

what are you getting at?
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Old 08-03-2006, 02:27 PM   #161
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Ahmadinejad: Destroy Israel, End Crisis

Quote:
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday the solution to the Middle East crisis is to destroy Israel. In a speech during an emergency meeting of Muslim leaders, Ahmadinejad also called for an immediate halt to fighting in Lebanon between Israel and the Iranian- backed militant group Hezbollah.

"Although the main solution is for the elimination of the Zionist regime, at this stage an immediate cease-fire must be implemented," he said.

Ahmadinejad, who has drawn international condemnation with previous calls for Israel to be wiped off the map, said the Middle East would be better off "without the existence of the Zionist regime."
Plenty of nuance to suck on here.
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Old 08-03-2006, 02:32 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

Plenty of nuance to suck on here.


are you suggesting that *anyone* who has posted in this thread agrees with Ahmadinejad? are you suggesting that *anyone* in this thread has called for the destruction of Isreal?

how silly.
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Old 08-03-2006, 02:33 PM   #163
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I'm not suggesting anything about anyone here.

Are you always this defensive?
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Old 08-03-2006, 02:33 PM   #164
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my phasing would be

what is pathetic
is labeling or suggesting that criticism of Israeli Government actions are anti-Semitic.


There are many, many Jews within Israel and in the diaspora the are critical of these actions

Are they anti-Semitic?

When this anti-Semitic claim is raised
(Especially when most/ if not all of us posting in here have said we support an Israeli State)
I believe it is a desperate attempt by the accuser to divert
Most likely, because good arguments on the merits of this current course of action are not available?
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Old 08-03-2006, 02:39 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
I'm not suggesting anything about anyone here.

Are you always this defensive?


why would you pull together two of my posts, one of which explicitly mentioned people who have been critical if Israel in this thread, then suggest that not all critiques are rationed or reasonable, and then toss out a batshit insane quote by a nutjob like Ahmadinejad?

are you always this antagonistic?
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