U2democrat
Blue Crack Addict
Good to hear! However in spite of this incident I fear that he'll win in November...we'll see. Jim Webb has a long way to go before he can catch up.
nbcrusader said:
Instead of avoiding Indy500's comment, perhaps the implication could be addressed straight on.
Do you think Webb's political operative felt oppressed at the Allen rally? Or do you think he is playing this up a bit?
BonoVoxSupastar said:I find it interesting that you and INDY seem to imply that racism only occurs when there's an act of violence or physical mistreatment.
BonoVoxSupastar said:To be honest, it doesn't matter if Webb's operative felt oppressed at that point, the word comes with a history of oppression and how do you determine which one will lead to violence, mistreatment, or inequality?
Although if I was the only black person in the audience, and I worked for the other team and he called me ****** in front of everyone, do you think I'd just be "playing it up"?
nbcrusader said:
Projecting false implications to bolster your own arguments is cheap and unnecessary.
nbcrusader said:
Using the established framework in these discussions, are you suggesting that "******" and "macaca" are equals in terms of cultural understanding?
nbcrusader said:
Indy's was applying the statement "'offensive words' can only hurt you as much as you let them" to the Allen remark.
nbcrusader said:
Are you suggesting that it doesn't matter if one is actually offended, we are simply policing speech at this point?
Angela Harlem said:
it's funny (or not) how you only list the extremes, and ignore those which surround you in your comfortable middle american life.
INDY500 said:
by anything I could ignore, eliminate, accept or simply walk away from.
INDY500 said:
Or maybe it's because I would never consider myself "oppressed" except by extreme conditions. Oppression to me implies an overwhelming force or burden, not easily removed or escaped from. True oppression rarely offers it's victims a choice. You are born into it, overrun by it or it knocks down your door in the middle of the night. Which is why I don't believe OPPRESSED to be a synonym of OFFENDED. You choose to remain offended.
I refuse to belittle past injustices or the very real oppressions that rob far too many humans around this planet of their dignity every minute of every day--by claiming to be "oppressed' by anything I could ignore, eliminate, accept or simply walk away from.
All of us have the duty to extinguish true oppression where it exists.
None of us have the right not to be offended.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Spoken like someone who truly has never been oppressed one day in their life.
INDY500 said:
"I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for,"
---DNC Chairman Howard Dean
jan 06
Should I feel oppressed by your standards?
INDY500 said:
By the way "hate", unlike "macaca", doesn't send people running to Wikipedia or a dictionary to see if they should feel offended or not.
Irvine511 said:having just watched the video ... the "macaca" is clearly a racial term, though i think the "welcome to america" part was meant to distinguish the down-home Allen from his opponent who lives "inside the Beltway" and is meeting with "Hollywood moguls" (read: Jews?).
one of my best friends, who is indian, is having a field day with this.
she and her boyfriend are ironically using it between themselves -- "macaca, please!" or "strictly for my macacas" or "where my macacas at?"
she also mentioned that Allen's mother grew up in Tunisia (she's white) where macaca is a very common slur for the Indian diaspora.
BonoVoxSupastar said:INDY made the point that he agreed that words can never hurt you. That's where this discussion started, so I made the logical step that racism can't exist in language. So no false implications here. If he cares to elaborate and clarify then I will listen.
BonoVoxSupastar said:Hate is hate, to me it really doesn't matter if our culture isn't as current with the Indian slurs vs. the slurs against African Americans and hispanics.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
But this is the issue racism hasn't been eliminated. You can't simply walk away because as soon as you turn the corner you are confronted with it once again.
This is the point you are missing.
nbcrusader said:
That is a logical step???
The two are unrelated.
That's like saying, "You're divorced, therefore you must have beat your wife. I'll wait for the clarification."
Utter nonsense.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Has there ever been a history of Republican beatings
nbcrusader said:
So, if this is a slur in France (or some other country), it doesn't matter where it is uttered, it is a slur period?
INDY500 said:
YES...YES...YES. Exactly my point. Racism is ugly and oppressive and has very real consequences for those whom suffer from it. So ugly in fact, that I would never accuse someone or some institution of spreading or fostering it...unless I damn well meant it and could back the charge up. Others, it would seem, do not share my criterion.
If you're really concerned about racism, which I've no doubt you are, then you should stand WITH ME to prevent the stamp of "racist" from being used cavalierly, unfairly, slanderously or for purely political purposes. To do otherwise is to risk diminishing the actual meaning of the word.
At which point I should apologize for the crossbreeding of threads. Where should this discussion continue?
BonoVoxSupastar said:If one only chooses to be offended by language and you can't really be hurt by language, then racism which IS hurtful, can't exist within language.
The only way you're analogy would work is if I would have said, I see no problem in beating your spouse.
INDY500 said:
Yes, every other November for the past few decades Republicans have routinely beaten and in Ronald Reagan's case, thrashed, Democrats.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
If I were to go to France and utter a racial slur in English that isn't common in France, I'd still be a racist. I'd be a racist who thought he was getting away with something, but damnitt what if someone did know what I saying?
I guess I would have to make up lies to cover up the truth.
Or let's turn it around, what if I go to France and they teach me the French equivalent. Do I get away with spouting off the slur when I come back to the States?
nbcrusader said:
No one has even remotely suggest that there is "no problem" with racism.
If you want to accuse politicians of it, and let them "prove you wrong" that's fine. Don't bring that game in here with other forum members.
nbcrusader said:
I agree. If Allen were French, and used a French slur here, it would still be racist.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Or let's turn it around, what if I go to France and they teach me the French equivalent. Do I get away with spouting off the slur when I come back to the States?
Republicans have held the House since 94. Elections are every 2 years.BonoVoxSupastar said:
Every other November? I think your counting may be flawed...
INDY500 said:
Republicans have held the House since 94. Elections are every 2 years.
BonoVoxSupastar said:
Eat shit?
It's been awhile...
How is everyone missing the biggest part of this story?
GEORGE ALLEN SPEAKS FRENCH!!!
deep said:
Who is the REAL AMERICAN?
BonoVoxSupastar said:
But some have said there's no problem with the language or the words, and that the only way your previous analogy would work.
This is no game. I want people to be able to back up something they said, and so far I haven't seen anyone back up "words can't hurt" or "choose to be offended".