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Old 08-17-2006, 06:39 PM   #181
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Originally posted by INDY500


Oui et je regrette.

Just proving a point. I said something in a language you don't even speak. Even if you think you know the meaning...would you always know the intent? Too be sure, sometimes there's no doubt, but always?
Ok, so you might get away with saying hateful things sometimes. What's your point? Someone else in this forum will know what you said.
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Old 08-17-2006, 06:49 PM   #182
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Originally posted by nbcrusader

What's to "back up" about people "choosing to be offended". The same inference has been made many time in FYM.

People can "choose to be offended" when they want to force a response or change the focus of a campaign.
Yes, some can raise a fuss about something, especially in politics.

But this is ignoring the fact that there are those that will be offended. Those that aren't choosing to be offended.

And the post that originally started this, wasn't made about some that choose to be offended, it was that all that are offended chose to be.

To dismiss words is ignorance. That's like saying the constitution is just words, Bible just's words, a marriage license is just words...

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

It's politics. It happens.
I think reducing it down purely to politics completely undermines those that were truly offended.
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Old 08-17-2006, 06:53 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I think reducing it down purely to politics completely undermines those that were truly offended.
Just as unsubstantiated declarations of racism undermines those who are offended.

As Indy pointed out, the stamp of "racism" is used in overabundance. And with no effort to understand intent.
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:00 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Just as unsubstantiated declarations of racism undermines those who are offended.

As Indy pointed out, the stamp of "racism" is used in overabundance. And with no effort to understand intent.
So if one throws around racial slurs and automatically sees non-whites as foreigners, as long as lies about the reasoning it makes it unsubstantiated?


And let's not forget America doesn't like it when we call a spade a spade...
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:05 PM   #185
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Again, you've inferred quite of bit of intent here. That is a feeble house of cards built from assumptions.

But, as has been shown in the Allen thread, if the evidence doesn't fit one form of bigotry (re: non-whites) it means it is another form of bigotry (re: Jews).
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:15 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Again, you've inferred quite of bit of intent here.
So basically it comes down to we have to hear intent from him otherwise you won't know.

But we all know the majority of racists are the first one to say they aren't a racist...

So I guess we'll never know.
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:21 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
So basically it comes down to we have to hear intent from him otherwise you won't know.

But we all know the majority of racists are the first one to say they aren't a racist...

So I guess we'll never know.
intent is not the same as direct admission.

Without a showing intent, you are essentially saying "you're a racist no matter what you were thinking".
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:22 PM   #188
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I think maybe I should split this thread and merge it into the Allen one.

I still haven't seen a good hypothesis for what Allen might have intended by using "macaca" if not as a racial slur. Or of under what circumstances a white person might refer to a black person(s) as "nigger" and not mean it disparagingly.
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Old 08-17-2006, 07:56 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

Without a showing intent, you are essentially saying "you're a racist no matter what you were thinking".
And this was where I was getting at earlier, how do you show intent?

Does it have to be an action beyond the words?
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:00 PM   #190
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Something beyond the mere utterance of a word.

Let's put it this way: what is the acceptable explaination for Allen's utterance (if any)? Is there room in the discussion for such?
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:10 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Something beyond the mere utterance of a word.
So, the pointing him out and having everyone "welcome him to America" wasn't enough?

Or does it take a physical action beyond singling him out?

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader

Let's put it this way: what is the acceptable explaination for Allen's utterance (if any)?
This is what a lot of us have been trying to get at...what is it?
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:33 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
So, the pointing him out and having everyone "welcome him to America" wasn't enough?

Or does it take a physical action beyond singling him out?
Yes, he singled him out - as a member of the Webb campaign.

The context was clearly political. He even references Sidarth as being at prior events.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
This is what a lot of us have been trying to get at...what is it?
Allen has offered his. My question was what are you willing to accept (if anything)?
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:38 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Allen has offered his. My question was what are you willing to accept (if anything)?
Maybe one that was consistent and didn't reek of really bad coincidence...
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:39 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
I think maybe I should split this thread and merge it into the Allen one.

I still haven't seen a good hypothesis for what Allen might have intended by using "macaca" if not as a racial slur. Or of under what circumstances a white person might refer to a black person(s) as "nigger" and not mean it disparagingly.
please dont split it. it get's too confusing, and threads evolve anyway. when a thread is this long and gets split to be merged with another long thread, it ends up more convoluted. this one is carrying on well enough, it's just sidetracking - which happens roughly to half the threads in here anyway. i remember the female and male circumcision threads we dont need that again, do we?
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Old 08-17-2006, 08:41 PM   #195
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nevermind.
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