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Old 07-28-2006, 01:48 PM   #496
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Those might be your measures of success/failure but I don't think really address the goals of the (leaders of the) insurgency...which are basically to keep the area completely unstable with a US occupation to 1) continue recruiting efforts for their "resistence movement", 2) keep the US military stretched and ensure continued strain on the global economy, and 3) to continue to keep the global community (and US for sure) divided over the why's and how's.

From that standpoint, they are doing what they intended so can be considered successful so far.
1.) The US occupation of Iraq prevents insurgence from achieving their objectives. Their goal is to force a premature withdrawal by convincing the US public at home that the policy is a failure and staying is pointless. It is the only way they can succeed in getting the US out of Iraq since they don't have the military capability to remove the United States from the country.

2. The Iraqi insurgency has not grown since April of 2004. Instead succeeding increasing the overall number of insurgents, many insurgents are in talks with the government to stop fighting, disband, and join the government.

3. The United States has a total of 88 Combat Brigades. Only 17 of those combat brigades are stationed in Iraq. The vast majority of US ground combat strength is still ready for deployment to any crises in the world.

4. The global economy is doing very well, and the US economy is currently the strongest it has ever been in its 200 year history with the exception of the last two years of the Clinton Presidency.

5. The global community is typically always divided to some degree on the issues of the day. Its true that in Iraq, the insurgents have indeed been successful in convincing many people that they are succeeding and that the US mission is a failure, but this has more to do with their propaganda strategy then any real achievments on their part. Aside from continuing to fight, and kill innocent people, the insurgents have achieved NOTHING and have not prevented Iraq from continue to move forward.
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:52 PM   #497
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Originally posted by anitram


If I was an Israeli, a Palestinian or a Lebanese person, I wouldn't want this administration anywhere near the Middle East. Everything they touch turns to shit.
Sure, thats why Saddam's regime, the only regime in the region to invade and attack four different countries unprovoked, threaten the planets energy supply with siezure and sabotage, use wmd more times than any leader in history, has been removed from power and a democratic government put in place. Same with Afghanistan, the Taliban and Al Quada have been removed and a developing democracy has replaced it.
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:54 PM   #498
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Of course there's no evidence that they are unwilling to attack lol. Their strength and true purpose lies in the threat (for now).

For the past 5 years while the world focused on eliminating al Qaida, Hezbollah quietly grew stronger and stronger. Now the opposite will happen...and they've both created it that way.
Its not as if the world only has resources to deal with one or the other. There will not be any change to the pursuit of Al Quada because of anything that Hezbollah does.
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:57 PM   #499
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Exactly...and as long as it is perceived that the US doesn't have absolute control of what is happening in Iraq, the more momentum can be gained for the "resistence" inside and outside of Iraq.



That's all they need to do to be successful toward their bigger strategy.
Since the Iraqi insurgency has not grown since April of 2004, that is far from being the case. In addition, most of the resistence in Iraq comes from Saddam loyalist and former members of Saddams Republican Guard.
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Old 07-28-2006, 01:57 PM   #500
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Originally posted by STING2

Same with Afghanistan, the Taliban and Al Quada have been removed and a developing democracy has replaced it.
Oh yeah, the Taliban and al Qaeda are gone!

Presumably to the same place as bin Laden?

You have an exceptional way of seeing only what you want to see, STING.

From The Weekly Standard:

Quote:
RECENT EVENTS in Afghanistan, notably the temporary seizure of the Afghan towns of Garmser and Naway-i-Barakzayi, have once again provoked a wave of speculation concerning a renewed Taliban offensive. The ability of the Taliban and their allies in al Qaeda and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's Hizb-e-Islami to organize such attacks suggests that they have succeeded at establishing a new safe haven--in northern Pakistan.

Contrary to the optimistic pronouncements of the Pakistani military, the Taliban and their al Qaeda allies have been able to establish control of a broad swath of territory across northern Pakistan, particularly in the Waziristan region that was described to Newsday by American and Afghan officials in February 2006 as "the primary engine of the continued Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan."
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Old 07-28-2006, 02:16 PM   #501
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
1.) The US occupation of Iraq prevents insurgence from achieving their objectives. Their goal is to force a premature withdrawal by convincing the US public at home that the policy is a failure and staying is pointless. It is the only way they can succeed in getting the US out of Iraq since they don't have the military capability to remove the United States from the country.
My point was they don't want the US out of Iraq. Furthermore, Bush doesn't want to leave Iraq either.

Quote:
2. The Iraqi insurgency has not grown since April of 2004. Instead succeeding increasing the overall number of insurgents, many insurgents are in talks with the government to stop fighting, disband, and join the government.
This is great news that we should be hearing more about...yet we're not...why is that? Maybe sources are not that credible.

Quote:
3. The United States has a total of 88 Combat Brigades. Only 17 of those combat brigades are stationed in Iraq. The vast majority of US ground combat strength is still ready for deployment to any crises in the world.
So? The financials are staggering.

Quote:
4. The global economy is doing very well, and the US economy is currently the strongest it has ever been in its 200 year history with the exception of the last two years of the Clinton Presidency.
It is a house of cards and if oil approaches $100 a gallon it will knock out the bottom card.

Quote:
5. The global community is typically always divided to some degree on the issues of the day. Its true that in Iraq, the insurgents have indeed been successful in convincing many people that they are succeeding and that the US mission is a failure, but this has more to do with their propaganda strategy then any real achievments on their part. Aside from continuing to fight, and kill innocent people, the insurgents have achieved NOTHING and have not prevented Iraq from continue to move forward.
The US invaded Iraq against the wishes of the global community. Israel/US will not consider a ceasefire against the wishes of the global community. Chances are, the US will again go it alone against Iran in the not too distant future when nuclear talks stall further.

The Bush administration is preoccupied with power, domination and narrow economic interests.

After all this blatant rejection of the global community, if that $100 per gallon of oil transpires into a global depression, the political climate could change dramatically in the West against American interests.
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Old 07-28-2006, 02:32 PM   #502
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500 posts...time to start a new thread.
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