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Old 07-13-2006, 06:03 PM   #31
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The reality is that Israel exists and SHOULD continue to exist. What it should also do is act as the democracy it declares itself to be. Democracies don't invade other countries because a soldier has been kidnapped. Democracies don't exact collective responsibility on entire populations for the actions of a minority. Israel does as it pleases and then says f**k off to international opinion when international opinion criticizes any of its actions.

And yes, Israel suffers terrible terrorist threats but those threats will not be lessened or tackled by acting as it does which incites more volunteers to sign up to the same terrorist organisations.
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Old 07-13-2006, 06:05 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy

The reality is that Israel exists and SHOULD continue to exist. What it should also do is act as the democracy it declares itself to be. Democracies don't invade other countries because a soldier has been kidnapped. Democracies don't exact collective responsibility on entire populations for the actions of a minority. Israel does as it pleases and then says f**k off to international opinion when international opinion criticizes any of its actions.
But didn't Lebanon invade Israel and kidnapp two soldiers. Since Hezbolah considers it self a governmental power?

There are suicide bombings which kill dozens of israelies because the palestinian suicide bomber doesn't like the government of israel.
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Old 07-13-2006, 06:45 PM   #33
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There are suicide bombings which kill dozens of Israelis because the Palestinian suicide bomber doesn't like the government of israel.
Things would be much better

If Israel had to use suicide bombings

instead of gun boats that lob rockets on families on the beach

or missiles fired by helicopter gun ships into crowded apartment buildings killing innocent women and babies
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Old 07-13-2006, 06:47 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24


But didn't Lebanon invade Israel and kidnapp two soldiers. Since Hezbolah considers it self a governmental power?

There are suicide bombings which kill dozens of israelies because the palestinian suicide bomber doesn't like the government of israel.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Israel needs to stop acting like it can do any damn thing they please because democratic countries don't behave like that.
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Old 07-13-2006, 06:47 PM   #35
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Well whats the story about the family. How do we know they didn't do something to Provoke the soldiers?
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Old 07-13-2006, 06:48 PM   #36
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But dosent Israel have a right to defend herself as Bush would say???
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Old 07-13-2006, 07:05 PM   #37
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^ Reading that Iraq bit just about made me sick.


yeah, well, as Rumsfeld would tell you, stuff happens.

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Old 07-13-2006, 07:08 PM   #38
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I really feel badly for the Iraqi people. They shouldn't have to deal with this crud.
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Old 07-13-2006, 07:10 PM   #39
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They should take a stand against the insurgency and put an end to the bloodshed, unite the country and create a new country where they will feel safe.
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Old 07-13-2006, 07:11 PM   #40
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They should take a stand against the insurgency and put an end to the bloodshed, unite the country and create a new country where they will feel safe.


because it's obviously that simple.
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Old 07-13-2006, 07:12 PM   #41
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Iran warns of 'fierce response' should Israel strike at Syria

By Haaretz Service and News Agencies

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Thursday an Israeli strike on Syria would be considered an attack on the whole Islamic world that would bring a "fierce response", state television reported.

"If the Zionist regime commits another stupid move and attacks Syria, this will be considered like attacking the whole Islamic world and this regime will receive a very fierce response," Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying in a telephone conversation with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738315.html
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Old 07-13-2006, 07:14 PM   #42
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because it's obviously that simple.
You don't think the people of Iraq are cabable?
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Old 07-13-2006, 08:24 PM   #43
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sadly, it appears as if "vs. the Rest of the Middle East" is quite accurate. and who is in ever increasing control of the Middle East?

Iran




but everything's just fine, of course. we should simply ignore how Iran has successfully infiltrated and now controls a large chunk of Iraq. such success has emboldened the mullahs not only to charge ahead in acquiring nuclear weapons, but also to attack Israel via Hezbollah:





it's going to be 111 degrees in Baghdad all week. and 130,000 American soldiers are caught in the middle of everything, a war that was always a regional conflict.

for all the talk about what a regional menace Saddam was, it now appears as if Iran and Syria are just as dangerous to the region, if not worse.
Wow, Iran talks to Hezbollah and a few Israely soldiers are captured. Now were claiming that Iran controls the middle east?

Iran and Syria have been involved with Hezbollah and Humas for decades! Iran has influence in Iraq, but they do not control any part of Iraq. There are foreign countries that do control parts of Iraq, but Iran is not one of them.

The fact that several dozen people died throughout Iraq on Tuesday does not show that the Iraqi government is in crises. The Iraqi government rather has successfully formed despite all the claims that Iraq was in or would soon be in a full blown civil war.

Yes, lets compare Syrian and Iranian actions to Saddam's actions over the past couple of decades. Which is more menacing, giving approval for small terrorist attacks through a proxy like Hezbolah, or invading another country with your own military and launching ballistic missiles at other countries? Threatening the planets energy supply with siezure and sabotage through ones attacks and invasions, or using a proxy to launch what are relatively small attacks against another country?

When was the last time Syria or Iran directly invaded or attacked another country? When was the last time either one of those countries used WMD?

When Saddam wanted to attack Iran he did not use a terror proxy, he used his own military to invade the country. When Saddam wanted to attack Israel, he launched dozens of his own ballistic missiles, he did not need to use a proxy like Hezbollah.



So lets keep things in perspective here. Syria and Iran play no greater role in Hezbollah and Humas actions than at any time over the past decade. Israel occupied Southern Lebanon for 18 years up until 2000. Shelling and airstrikes should not come as a surprise. This is not a new conflict.

In terms of military equipment, Iran still only has half of the amount of tanks, armored vehicles, artillery pieces, aircraft etc. that Iraq had prior to the removal of Saddam. Much of the equipment also dates back to when the Shah was in power and is very outdated. The primary motivation for Iran's nuclear and other WMD programs that were started two decades ago, was Saddam's capabilties in these area's and the casualties Iran suffered from WMD during its war with Saddam.

Syria is far better equiped than Iran is, but its also to far from the Persian Gulf to invade or attack the vital energy resources in that region. Its forces are mainly deployed along its border with Israel and Lebanon and its unlikely they would be used in any other role except for a conflict with Israel.

Everything is far from being fine, but this is not another doomsday senerio. Its not World War III as many in the media suggest, nor is a escalutating totally out of control situation. The Middle East has not collapsed. Its faced far more serious crises in the past.
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Old 07-13-2006, 08:58 PM   #44
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Israel does indeed have the right to defend itself. It must. This doesn't mean they have any business invading other countries, however. That won't do.
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Old 07-13-2006, 09:05 PM   #45
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Lebanon is a failed state. It was effectively controlled by Syria for decades, and still has, at least, some of its strings still pulled by it. Hezbollah, on the other end, is the other real power player in Lebanon. If Lebanon is incapable and/or unwilling to deal with Hezbollah, which is a demonstrable and recognized terrorist organization, then Israel will deal with Hezbollah itself. That is precisely what it is doing.

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