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Old 07-13-2006, 01:01 PM   #16
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Originally posted by JMScoopy
GO ISRAEL!!!

they put up with enough shit, i support 'em 100%.
C'mon, JM, the report AchtungBono reprinted said up to three dozen civilians were killed. Let's show some restraint in your enthusiasm.

I don't understand why Israel is taking it out on Lebanon as a country. Everyone knows the Lebanese gov't is fairly powerless to do anything about Hezbollah. Maybe the Iranians or Syrians have some pull, or Israel needs to go into Lebanon again and fight Hezbollah face-to-face...but bombing Beirut won't do much but embolden all the terrorist groups who will use the civilian casualties caused by Israel's bombing as further propaganda that Israel is the aggressor.
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Old 07-13-2006, 03:01 PM   #17
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I don't understand why Israel is taking it out on Lebanon as a country. Everyone knows the Lebanese gov't is fairly powerless to do anything about Hezbollah.
Which I gather is why they are attacking Lebanon. Their goal according to AB's post is to get Hezbollah away from their border and "sideline" them. Lebanon's gov. can't do it, so Israel is going in and taking care of it themselves.
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Old 07-13-2006, 03:37 PM   #18
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Which I gather is why they are attacking Lebanon. Their goal according to AB's post is to get Hezbollah away from their border and "sideline" them. Lebanon's gov. can't do it, so Israel is going in and taking care of it themselves.
Except that they're attacking Beirut as well - not just the borderlands.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:00 PM   #19
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The death toll in Gaza, for those not paying attention, is 43+ Palestinians, including over a dozen under the age of eighteen, such as the 6 year old girl killed when the IDF attacked a school on Friday/Saturday. Oh, and one Israeli soldier, suspected of being sniped at by his own side, and hence a victim of 'friendly fire.'

This is a humanitarian crisis, a human rights violation of staggering proportions. It was inevitable, and in fact predicted by many in the region last week, that Hizbollah would seek to either attack or kidnap soldiers from Northern Israel or the Golan Heights region in an attempt to forge solidarity with the Gazans and to divert Israeli military might from the strip.

The questions now stand: how many different regions of Arab communities can Israel assault simultaneously while still claiming to be acting in self-defense, and how long will the EU and America stand idly by while Israel continues to enact ethnic cleansing on the people whose land they stole?
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:18 PM   #20
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whose land they stole?
Isn't the land Israel is currently based on land that "God"gave to his chosen people. Does this mean that Jews should wander the earth as Nomads?
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:21 PM   #21
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I agree with a lot of what you're saying, financeguy. But the whole "land stealing" thing is a little much. It's LAND. It doesn't BELONG to anyone. It belongs to EVERYONE. I just don't understand why they can't just split the damn thing up.

And on the topic of land stealing, didn't we steal land from Native Americans?
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:27 PM   #22
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sadly, it appears as if "vs. the Rest of the Middle East" is quite accurate. and who is in ever increasing control of the Middle East?

Iran:


[q]So there is considerable speculation among Israelis and Palestinians about whether Hezbollah and Mr. Meshal, and through him the Hamas military wing, coordinated the manner and timing of the raid to capture the corporal or whether, ultimately, the decision was Iran’s.

An Arab intelligence officer working in a country neighboring Israel said it appeared that Iran — through Hezbollah — had given support to Mr. Meshal to stage the seizure of Corporal Shalit. The officer said the Shalit case, even before the capture of two more Israeli soldiers, amounted to Hezbollah and Iran sending a message: “If you want to hurt us, there are tools that we have and that we can use against you.”

Israeli intelligence officers and analysts say they believe that the message is primarily Iran’s, acting through Hezbollah and Mr. Meshal.

Itamar Rabinovich, former Israeli ambassador to Washington and chief negotiator with Syria on a peace treaty that never quite materialized, sees Iran “on a roll, looking for regional hegemony.” Even without nuclear weapons, Iran is acquiring considerable influence in Lebanon, in Syria and with the Palestinians, not to speak of Iraq.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/13/wo...gewanted=print

[/q]


meanwhile, the current Iraqi government is in crisis:

[q]In Tuesday's most deadly attack, two pedestrians wearing vests made of explosives blew themselves up near a restaurant outside the walls of the Green Zone, within a few hundred yards of three busy entrances, Iraqi and American officials said. Soon after the initial blasts, a hidden bomb was detonated nearby, adding to the carnage, the American military said. Some Iraqi authorities said the third explosion was caused by a car bomb.

At least 15 Iraqi civilians and an Iraqi police officer were killed in the explosions, and 4 people were wounded....

In a predominantly Sunni area of Dawra, a district in southern Baghdad, gunmen ambushed a bus carrying Shiite mourners from the holy city of Najaf, where they had buried a relative, government officials and family members said. The gunmen pulled 10 people from the bus and executed them, the Interior Ministry official said.

An hour earlier, in Taji, north of Baghdad, gunmen ambushed another bus, killing one person and wounding five, the official said.

Two mortar grenades hit a Shiite mosque in Dawra, killing 9 and wounding 11 civilians, the Interior Ministry official said.

In other violence, a family of five--a father, mother, grown daughter and two teenage sons--were found beheaded in a predominantly Sunni sector of Dawra, according to an official at Yarmouk Hospital, the main medical facility in western Baghdad.

The police and hospital officials also reported that four car bombs around Baghdad killed at least 7 people and wounded at least 18.

Gunmen raided a company's offices in the upper-middle-class Mansour neighborhood, killing three employees and wounding three, officials said.

According to the official at Yarmouk Hospital, five bodies were discovered early Tuesday in Jihad, the neighborhood where dozens of people were reportedly executed by marauding gunmen on Sunday. It was unclear when the victims had been killed.

In Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's hometown, a time bomb exploded in the clinic of Ameera al-Rubaie, the wife of the governor of Salahuddin Province, according to Agence France-Presse, which quoted the local police. Dr. Rubaie, a gynecologist, was killed and four of her patients were wounded, the police said, according to the wire service.

In Baquba, north of Baghdad, the mayor of the Um Al Nawa district was assassinated by gunmen, the ministry official said. In the Shiite holy city of Karbala, a drive-by shooting killed two workers in the central market, according to the Interior Ministry official.

An engineer and his bodyguard were assassinated on their way to work in Kirkuk on Tuesday morning, according to Col. Adel Zain Alabdin of the Iraqi police. A car bomb in Mosul killed two people and wounded four, the police said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/12/wo...gewanted=print

[/q]


but everything's just fine, of course. we should simply ignore how Iran has successfully infiltrated and now controls a large chunk of Iraq. such success has emboldened the mullahs not only to charge ahead in acquiring nuclear weapons, but also to attack Israel via Hezbollah:

[q]Israel has information that Hizbullah guerrillas who captured two Israeli soldiers are trying to transfer them to Iran, Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said.

Regev did not disclose the source of his information.

The IDF released the names of the two soldiers on Thursday. According to the IDF Spokesperson, the two reserve are Ehud Goldwasser, 31, from Nahariya, and Eldad Regev, 26, from Kiryat Motzkin.

Hizbullah guerrillas, who are backed by Iran, seized the soldiers Wednesday in a cross-border raid.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle%2FShowFull

[/q]



it's going to be 111 degrees in Baghdad all week. and 130,000 American soldiers are caught in the middle of everything, a war that was always a regional conflict.

for all the talk about what a regional menace Saddam was, it now appears as if Iran and Syria are just as dangerous to the region, if not worse.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:32 PM   #23
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Yes we did. I would go further as to the west part of the USA but we have covered that many times and it always turned ugly.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:33 PM   #24
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Isn't the land Israel is currently based on land that "God"gave to his chosen people. Does this mean that Jews should wander the earth as Nomads?
I'm refering specifically to the occupied territories, not the wider geographical entity of Israel.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:42 PM   #25
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I'm refering specifically to the occupied territories, not the wider geographical entity of Israel.
Ok, then I would agree.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:52 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
how long will the EU and America stand idly by while Israel continues to enact ethnic cleansing on the people whose land they stole?
I agree with you. Unfortunately, though, with midterm elections coming up here in the US, the US will continue to support Israel.
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:54 PM   #27
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Why does everyone hate Israel
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Old 07-13-2006, 05:58 PM   #28
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^ Reading that Iraq bit just about made me sick.
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Old 07-13-2006, 06:01 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
Why does everyone hate Israel
The reality is that Israel exists and SHOULD continue to exist. What it should also do is act as the democracy it declares itself to be. Democracies don't invade other countries because a soldier has been kidnapped. Democracies don't exact collective responsibility on entire populations for the actions of a minority. Israel does as it pleases and then says f**k off to international opinion when international opinion criticizes any of its actions.

And yes, Israel suffers terrible terrorist threats but those threats will not be lessened or tackled by acting as it does which incites more volunteers to sign up to the same terrorist organisations.
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Old 07-13-2006, 06:02 PM   #30
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I do not hate Israel. I disagree with the government's military tactics. As I mentioned in another thread, I have Israeli friends and Palestinian friends and my feelings about the politics have nothing to do with how I feel about the people.
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