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Old 04-01-2005, 02:07 PM   #76
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nobody reads this

this may sound a little bit stupid, but I really hope this:

I hope the Pope (hey, it rymes )

again

I hope the Pope doesn't die on April Fool's Day... it would be just too much...

I mean... this isn't a Seinfeld or Larry David episode

PS: specially when today it marks 18 years since the Pope came to Chile... now that sucks
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:09 PM   #77
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^he won't, it's april 2 already here (and in Rome)
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:10 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
I'm a practicing Catholic and I don't mind criticism of the Pope now. If it were really mean-spirited or whatever and said "he should burn in hell" or something I'd object, but I have no problem with people criticizing the guy's theology or politics. I expect the Pope to be controversial, not universally loved.
I do have a problem with the timing of the criticisms and also expect the Pope to be controversial... I do not have issues with the criticisms themselves. As I said, everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but I would rather have them wait as a sign of respect.

But then again, that is also my own opinion.
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:10 PM   #79
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Originally posted by melon


I hope the next Pope is immensely better than this one. As a reluctant former Catholic, we, as a Church, deserve better. I want to someday again feel proud of the religion I grew up in.

Melon
You are an angry and hate-filled intellectual. Nonpracticing you may be, Catholic you are. There is no former.

I assume your gripe is with the pope's uncompromising conservative doctrine and apparent hypocrisy flag-bearing in interreligious reconciliation and understanding. Either way, I believe the next in line is following one of the greats in Catholic history.

You need to get laid... Hah.. Damn.. Those green cards can be a bitch can't they?

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Old 04-01-2005, 02:12 PM   #80
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Originally posted by U2@NYC


So the Pope chose to become a public figure?

You don't get it, do you? He was chosen.

And I disagree with you, I think that when he is about to die, you should show some respect. Feel free to discuss what you did not like about him after people have grieved. Otherwise, I am sorry, but you are showing a lot of disrespect.
You can disagree with me if you like, and you don't have to read what I write, but I disagree with you on almost every point.

a) yes he did choose to take a path toward a more administrative role in the church and therefore towards popedom. I do not believe for a moment he was divinely chosen, if that's what you are getting at. I don't think anyone is. He was chosen by a bunch of other cardinals...most who were probably hoping to get the job themselves.

b) I don't think that discussing his errors (in my view) shows any lack of respect. As I said, I do it when those close to me are dying or have died, so why should a public figure be any different?

You've a right to your opinion just like anyone else, but your opinion does not trump mine. And if you think I am disrespectful, that is fine with me too. Just don't expect me to shut up, OK?
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:18 PM   #81
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Originally posted by indra


a) yes he did choose to take a path toward a more administrative role in the church and therefore towards popedom. I do not believe for a moment he was divinely chosen, if that's what you are getting at. I don't think anyone is. He was chosen by a bunch of other cardinals...most who were probably hoping to get the job themselves.

b) I don't think that discussing his errors (in my view) shows any lack of respect. As I said, I do it when those close to me are dying or have died, so why should a public figure be any different?

You've a right to your opinion just like anyone else, but your opinion does not trump mine. And if you think I am disrespectful, that is fine with me too. Just don't expect me to shut up, OK?
a. I never said 'divinely chosen'. He was chosen by other Popes and not with just the plain-vanilla hope of becoming a 'public figure'. My sense is that his love for Catholicism went beyond that. I might be naive... but I simply choose to believe that. Religion is sometimes hard to explain.

b. This is your own sense and you are entitled to do so. I would not, for instance, start criticizing my father's doings when he is about to pass away. This would be revolting, in my opinion. But, hey, everyone has his/her own personality.

And I never expected you to shut up. You can say whatever you want. This is a forum to express opinions... and also to disagree with them, which is what I did.
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:27 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nostradamus


You are an angry and hate-filled intellectual. Nonpracticing you may be, Catholic you are. There is no former.

I assume your gripe is with the pope's uncompromising conservative doctrine and apparent hypocrisy flag-bearing in interreligious reconciliation and understanding. Either way, I believe the next in line is following one of the greats in Catholic history.

You need to get laid... Hah.. Damn.. Those green cards can be a bitch can't they?

.Nostradamus
That's completely out of line.

And no such thing as a "former Catholic"? Please. It isn't genetic.
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Old 04-01-2005, 02:42 PM   #83
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


That's completely out of line.

And no such thing as a "former Catholic"? Please. It isn't genetic.
I thought I was reading a joke to begin with

To see someone's death being turned into an argument/ bashing session is beyond me, really.
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Old 04-01-2005, 03:24 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2@NYC

And I never expected you to shut up. You can say whatever you want. This is a forum to express opinions... and also to disagree with them, which is what I did.
So we agree to disagree. No worries then!
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Old 04-01-2005, 03:48 PM   #85
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I will not deny that he was definitely a good man who was on the right path of things but I have a problem with the whole "Pope" position.

Isn't the whole pomposity of the position, along with the way people seem to worship the ground he walks on, a complete aberration from true Christian teachings? Aren't christians suppossed to be humble and to worship only God? Whenever I see catholics kissing statues and praying to idols I cringe and wonder who taught them these things.

All of that aside, I do respect the man and the path he chose to live his life. Very admirable.

...I wonder if I can have the pair of sunglasses that Bono gave him now?
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Old 04-01-2005, 04:17 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
I will not deny that he was definitely a good man who was on the right path of things but I have a problem with the whole "Pope" position.

Isn't the whole pomposity of the position, along with the way people seem to worship the ground he walks on, a complete aberration from true Christian teachings? Aren't christians suppossed to be humble and to worship only God? Whenever I see catholics kissing statues and praying to idols I cringe and wonder who taught them these things.
Well, first off we don't worship the Pope or any statues or idols. We have a high level of respect for the Pope, just as we do for Mary. As far as the statues and idols, we don't worship them. The only time that that might be remotely true is if it's depicting Jesus, in which case we're not worshipping the idol, but rather the thing the idol represents. For example, sometimes I'll pray in front of a crucifix. Now, I don't think that the crucifix has anything special about it or that some kind of spirit inhabits the crucifix. It's just a reminder that Jesus died for us. I'm praying to Jesus - not the crucifix.

I mean, I can see how things like that might seem strange to some people, but I'm just putting the point forward that we don't worship these things. Just to be clear.
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Old 04-01-2005, 05:12 PM   #87
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The world will loose a great leader, Pope John Paul II ~ Cold Warrior with a cross
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Old 04-01-2005, 05:12 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase
can we make seperate threads for those who want to discuss what JP2 has done over his time as pope and one for his weakening health.

some of us don't want to read people bash him while he's on his death bed...
Thank you.
I am a practicing Catholic , and I share the sent thoughts as verte. I have been praying for him all day for a peace death.
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Old 04-01-2005, 05:37 PM   #89
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I've been praying for the pope all day also. We're obviously about to lose a pope, a great pope in my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
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Old 04-01-2005, 06:53 PM   #90
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Look, I don't like his conservatism, but forst and formost for me, he is(was?) a great MAN> This was the man who isnpired Lech Walesa and SO MANY of the oppressed under the Comunist yoke to quietly begin thier intellectual movments that would come to fruition in 1989. He gave hope to so many, in a spiritual way, even if on paper he was too conservbative. I will always remember him as the man who kissed the ground of every country he touched down on...his eloqunet gesture even of kneeling and kissing the cement of an airport tarmac. That was his gesture, his symbol. It said so eloqunetly, that for him all the earth was equal, and we all are (or should be) one. That was agesture that went beyond Catholicism. I usually don;t put much store in symbolic gestures, but this never failed to move me beyond words.

If he has gone, form this non-Catholic, RIP. Thenext Pop won't have half your imagination...or inspiration..he'll be a standard man of the word.
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