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Old 04-06-2005, 12:16 AM   #196
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
in Italy people are already playing the lottery of who will be the next pope those crazy italians
It's not the only thing we're doing...
We are also standing on very long lines to pay respect to the pope...
... and praying a lot, not only in Roma, but in the whole Country.


Teta040 -- what you write sounds REALLY scaring to me!
I hope American parents will find a way to break the taboos and speak with their children about sex and how to protect themselves. Hope parents will have more common sense on it...
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Old 04-06-2005, 12:51 AM   #197
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Originally posted by lady luck


It's not the only thing we're doing...
We are also standing on very long lines to pay respect to the pope...
... and praying a lot, not only in Roma, but in the whole Country.
I know I know Italy very well, and its so typical for you people to have that kind of serious respect, but also to make crazy things.. like the lottery. its just like Italians are.. I also know the nonnas will sit at their dinner of pasta con tutta la famiglia and discuss about the next pope

ah ya Italy.. hehe
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Old 04-09-2005, 07:22 PM   #198
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I stayed up allnight long and watched the whole thing (coverage began at 3 AM local time here), and several times wept. The thousnds of cheering under 25's that you could audibly hear moved me so much. That the Vatican let the people have their Big Moment of Farewell, and reporters in the crowd just letting us hear the clapping and cheering and chantng in so many languages. They talked aobut Solidarity a lot, and I got the chills thinking that someof those Solidarity flags that people were waving must have been actual historical artifacts, THE actual Solidarity banners they had saved from 23, 24 yrs ago. Not something made up for this occasion.

I got to thinking that an era had truly passed, that this was truly the last time we would ever be One. Maybe, the only time we had ever really been truly united. No secular leader, or even popular figure, has ever gotten such universal honor and respect (you can sure a lot of Moslems didn't mourn John Lennon; yet here they were at this man's funeral.)

My heart goes out, truly, to the people of Poland most. The poster who is from Poland here, I am in mourning with you. They have lost someone who was like the best kind of George Washington..he was, in a sense, the Father of the modern Polish state...and the best kind: a spiritual Father, more so than a secular one.

Truly, he was a giant among pygmies..among cold hearts and small minds.


Lady Luck: I want to ask you about one thing. On my broadcast one of the reporters mentioned that in recent days there have been articles in the Italian media about people already actually praying to John Paul as to a saint, asking for his intercession with the Father, for the cure of various ailments, and several are reporting cures. Is this true, and if so, can you point me in the direction of a link to one of these stories? (Hopefully an English version, but heck, maybe you could translate?)

Very curious. Grazie!
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Old 04-09-2005, 07:40 PM   #199
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As a Catholic I didn't always agree w/ everything the Pope said, but what I did see of the funeral moved me, deeply. It was nice to hear about the good he accomplished and the personal encounters people had with him.

I was still always in awe of the man as a symbol and as a person, and what happened at/surrounding his funeral gives me hope.

I'll never forget the image of the book of Gospels atop his casket blowing in the wind.
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Old 04-09-2005, 08:38 PM   #200
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What I find so sad about the Pope's death is that there isn't a great leader, or anyone on the world scene to look up now. While I didn't agree with him on a lot of things, I felt you could look towards him when the world was in chaos. But now that he's gone, there's no one that the people could look up to.

That was clear to me while watching his funeral. There was not one person there - the presidents, the Prime Ministers, the dignitaries - who would receive a funeral like the Pope. They might get a grand ceremony and a lot of world leaders in attendance, but never that many and there won't be millions of people chanting for sainthood or waiting in line for hours to view his body. Not too many people look up to those world leaders with awe or would quake in their boots in their presence. Even the next pope won't get that, mainly because it would take a while to get used to the new one (especially for anyone who has never known any other pope). The world seems so empty now with Pope John Paul II.
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Old 04-10-2005, 07:01 AM   #201
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Originally posted by Pearl
What I find so sad about the Pope's death is that there isn't a great leader, or anyone on the world scene to look up now. While I didn't agree with him on a lot of things, I felt you could look towards him when the world was in chaos. But now that he's gone, there's no one that the people could look up to.

That was clear to me while watching his funeral. There was not one person there - the presidents, the Prime Ministers, the dignitaries - who would receive a funeral like the Pope. They might get a grand ceremony and a lot of world leaders in attendance, but never that many and there won't be millions of people chanting for sainthood or waiting in line for hours to view his body. Not too many people look up to those world leaders with awe or would quake in their boots in their presence. Even the next pope won't get that, mainly because it would take a while to get used to the new one (especially for anyone who has never known any other pope). The world seems so empty now with Pope John Paul II.
I agree. We're stuck with a bunch of second-rate leaders all over the world, there's no strong one that stands out. Pope John Paul was the only first-rate leader out there, and now he's gone. I converted to Catholicism sixteen years ago, and he was the only Pope I've ever had. No matter who the new Pope is, it's going to be strange, to say the least. It's going to be very hard for him, I certainly won't be jealous of him.
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Old 04-10-2005, 11:36 AM   #202
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I put my bet on the West no longer respecting the Papacy. People respected JPII automatically, because he was around so long. If this new guy is a small minded bigot, he won't have the comfort of nearly 30 years of a reign and North American Catholics, quite likely, will turn into European Catholics, who are pretty much all lapsed.

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Old 04-10-2005, 12:18 PM   #203
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Originally posted by melon
If this new guy is a small minded bigot, he won't have the comfort of nearly 30 years of a reign and North American Catholics, quite likely, will turn into European Catholics, who are pretty much all lapsed.

But the difference is that many European Catholics may be lapsed in some ways, they are also cultural Catholics which is something North Americans have little to no concept of. In many countries around the world to be Catholic is something that's not only cultural but also borderline an ethnic identity, because their history is so entwined with the Church. So that regardless of their lapses re: dogma, they will identify themselves openly as Catholics whereas North Americans who are not part of these minority groups lack that affiliation and will much more readily dissociate themselves from the Church entirely.
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Old 04-10-2005, 12:34 PM   #204
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A questionable way to remember the Pope

Protests planned for controversial cardinal's Mass

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CHICAGO, Illinois (CNN) -- Several members of an advocacy group for victims of priest sexual abuse were flying to Rome Sunday to protest Cardinal Bernard Law's celebration of a Mass honoring the late Pope John Paul II, the organization's founder said Saturday night.

Law, former archbishop of Boston, is to say Mass Monday at St. Peter's Basilica.

Law is archpriest of Basilica Santa Maria Maggiore, where he presided on Sunday. Pope John Paul II appointed him to that post after Law was implicated in the sexual abuse scandal in Boston in 2002.
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Old 04-10-2005, 12:46 PM   #205
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When it came to the sex scandals, the Pope and the Vatican at-large were visibly annoyed by the press coverage and were seemingly only "apologetic" for being caught. I don't really think they're sorry at all, and giving Cardinal Law a promotion at the Vatican, rather than admonishing him, was their grossly arrogant way of showing it.

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Old 04-17-2005, 05:10 PM   #206
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Cardinal Law is the archpriest at Santa Maria Maggiore? Horrors. That's a scandal. The guy was implicated for the sex scandals of the Boston Archdiocese. They should hide the guy in a basement.
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Old 04-17-2005, 09:54 PM   #207
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No kidding, Verte. Boston and NYC used to be THE first centers of Catholicism in the US, period, with some of its bigest and most historical churches in Boston (the Irish of course.) Now, b/c of him, three of those churches in Boston alone are closed and more are soon to follow. This scandal has cost more than $700 million ot the Vatican. That's nothing to sneeze at. No matter how vibrant and growing and the Soth is, Latin America, etc, it's still the wealtyh counries of the North, esp the Us, that while they have less Catholics, stillprovide the Vatican with a pretty hefty chunk of its funds. You'd think that they'd have to pay attention to us for that reason alone.

As to there being no world leader who can take JPIIs' place....I've been thinking on this lately. I'm a longtime fan, and as such "know" too much about him and therefore am NOT one of the fans who seem ready to canonize him...(I can perfectly understand and respect the swear-words in public, at this stage, heck, I'd do this once in while too), but from the admiration and respect he gets from so many world leaders and his ever growing clout in other ways, I have a suspicion that when Bono dies (and let that day be some 40 yrs away--at least), his funeral might attract the largest number of mourners since JP 2, "virtually" if not in person...right now, he seems to be the only world figure that commands universal respect, if not as a musician, than as force for good and a moral leader. You might not get well-wishes from a panaorama of ME leaders, but there are thr growing numbersof Moslem fans, and people in Bosnai etc who admire him. There are many more out there that deserve the honors more than he, as he would be the first to say, but they are not public figures. (Again, I'm not talking aobut personal morality; there are things we doubtless have no right to know. I'm talking about what we we do know.) Again, I'm not making a wildly hyperbolic statement here; I'm being dispassionate about this, and base it on fact. John Lennon, while loved and honored by many, continues to have as many detractors for his "Jesus" remark, even today; and Bob Marley, as equally deserving, had less political clout. Bono is a more
central" world figure and his stature can only grow more, if that is possible, if he keeps his promise to devote "the rest of his life" to his Great Work, as his musical career becomes less viable with age.

Please read this post carefully, and don't flame me. I am speaking of him strictly as a World Figure, and not just a musician, which it is easy for we fans to forget he has become. He passed that point some 3 yrs ago. When he finally leaves us, I suspect the eulogies will be more in tune with MLK, and less like John Lennon. Even though--as Bono would be the first to point out--MLK actually DID things, did far more. Compared to him, and others, Bono really has had to take no great risks. Seen in this light, he;s not done much of anything, really. So whay the brouhaha? Still, the world has a way of honoring those whom it chooses to, and we can debate just what tangible impact he really DID have, besides leaving us a great body of musical works.
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