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Old 10-09-2004, 02:39 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
anitram,
That was a defining moment of the debate.

Most Americans liked the Pres asserting himself. At that moment he took control of the room.

Most Americans loved it. Not all, most mind you.

Most ppl outside of America didn't like Bush asserting himself.

It is where youre perspective is.

db9
I thought he was an ass.
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Old 10-09-2004, 03:13 PM   #107
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Originally posted by joyfulgirl


I thought he was an ass.
Hi Ms Joyful
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Old 10-09-2004, 03:24 PM   #108
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But that mass e-mail by the Kerry campaign telling people to flood online polls really makes thost pointless. Wait until there has been proper polling.

I'm a member of the campaign and I've received no such emails
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Old 10-09-2004, 03:32 PM   #109
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neutral<----

I'm a member of the campaign<------

another liberal lie
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Old 10-09-2004, 03:35 PM   #110
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Just wanted to go back to an earlier post from diamond that included, among Bush's accomplishments, lower interest rates and higher home ownership. These are not good things. Interest rates, and therefore mortgage rates, were waaaay low after the Fed dropped them to historic levels because the economy was so bad. The good news is that lower rates made it easier to own a house. The bad news is that if you weren't in the market before the recession, you couldn't afford to get a house at these rates. This is not a sign of a strong economy.

As for the 5.4% employment rate, as of yesterday, it has remained steady, not decreased, from Sept. 96,000 jobs were created last month, much lower than the 140,000 that economists were expecting. You need around 180,000 new jobs every month to keep up with the employment population increase. And the super duper tax cuts diamond mentioned, we did indeed receive -- Bush said we would be creating 600,000 new jobs a month with his tax cuts by this time. That's obvious not what's happening. If Bush wants to leave office with a net job increase, 850,000 new jobs need to be created between now and December. If that doesn't happen, which based on recent jobs data it won't, then Bush will be the first president since Hoover to have a net job loss. And don't give me any of that crap about 9/11. As much as that hurt our economy, a year after the attacks fewer jobs were lost due to terrorist attacks than due to corporate America including Bush's friend Ken Lay and his Enron going belly up and taking Arther Andersen with it and the corruption at WorldCom.

One of the few things that pisses me off about Kerry is that he hasn't nailed Bush with these numbers yet. I hope he does so at the next debate. They are pretty damning.
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Old 10-09-2004, 05:50 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally posted by sharky
Just wanted to go back to an earlier post from diamond that included, among Bush's accomplishments, lower interest rates and higher home ownership. These are not good things. Interest rates, and therefore mortgage rates, were waaaay low after the Fed dropped them to historic levels because the economy was so bad. The good news is that lower rates made it easier to own a house. The bad news is that if you weren't in the market before the recession, you couldn't afford to get a house at these rates. This is not a sign of a strong economy.

As for the 5.4% employment rate, as of yesterday, it has remained steady, not decreased, from Sept. 96,000 jobs were created last month, much lower than the 140,000 that economists were expecting. You need around 180,000 new jobs every month to keep up with the employment population increase. And the super duper tax cuts diamond mentioned, we did indeed receive -- Bush said we would be creating 600,000 new jobs a month with his tax cuts by this time. That's obvious not what's happening. If Bush wants to leave office with a net job increase, 850,000 new jobs need to be created between now and December. If that doesn't happen, which based on recent jobs data it won't, then Bush will be the first president since Hoover to have a net job loss. And don't give me any of that crap about 9/11. As much as that hurt our economy, a year after the attacks fewer jobs were lost due to terrorist attacks than due to corporate America including Bush's friend Ken Lay and his Enron going belly up and taking Arther Andersen with it and the corruption at WorldCom.

One of the few things that pisses me off about Kerry is that he hasn't nailed Bush with these numbers yet. I hope he does so at the next debate. They are pretty damning.
I hope your not going to ignore the fact that 2 million jobs have been created over the past 13 months. In addition, the trend in unemployment is downward. 5.4% unemployment is lower than the average unemployment rate in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, and it is still dropping. If Kerry gets elected, there will be very little for him to do on the economic front except to maintain the growth and low unemployment that Bush has handed him. Anything that Kerry could do to effect the economy won't be felt until August of next year, and by then unemployment will be down near 4.5%, and people will be probably be worried about a labor shortage.
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Old 10-09-2004, 06:40 PM   #112
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I'd just like to say that I too found Bush's reaction to the moderator really quite amusing. Some people say its Bush asserting himself, others say its him flipping out.

Unsurprisingly, I'd have to agree with the latter. He looked like an overzealous juvenile with a big mouth and an impatient nerve, without the slightest regard for the rules.

Still, it was good seeing him in what appears to be his true colours.

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Old 10-09-2004, 06:42 PM   #113
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However, I think they both tied. Bush did a lot better than he did in the first debate, and Kerry, though I think he did pretty well in the second half, was weak in the first when a few asked him how 'he' would do better. During the first half he relied too much on criticism, and his argument became repetitive, something I deplore in any candidate.

Bush became stronger as the debate went on... though his little tantrum was not at all a high point.

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Old 10-09-2004, 11:06 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally posted by drivemytrabant
Polls on who won the 2nd Presidential debate(as current 2:00 EST 10/09/04)

Gallup
Kerry 47
Bush 45

CNN
Kerry 56
Bush 42

FoxNews
Kerry 45
Bush 54

MSNBC
Kerry 63
Bush 37
Gee, Fox News, surprise there...
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Old 10-10-2004, 07:00 AM   #115
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Interested, the first Fox poll I saw, right after the debate, had Kerry just ahead. LOL.

Diamond, what Bush did was not manly. Men behave like adults. How do you demonstrate being "in control of the room" by losing control? Is that the kind of diplomacy he used to coalition build? No wonder no one wanted to come play.....

SD
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Old 10-10-2004, 07:05 AM   #116
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Well he got his message across and in the end that is all that matters, it was obvious from the outset that Kerry would win the debates on style but the question is can he maintain the lead without shooting himself in the foot on content (thinking Global Test on US power).
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Old 10-10-2004, 07:34 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sherry Darling
Interested, the first Fox poll I saw, right after the debate, had Kerry just ahead. LOL.

Diamond, what Bush did was not manly. Men behave like adults. How do you demonstrate being "in control of the room" by losing control? Is that the kind of diplomacy he used to coalition build? No wonder no one wanted to come play.....

SD
Sherry,
What Bush did was similar to what Reagan did in a debate about 25 years ago.

Not quite with the same style becuz no one is Reagan however it was clearly reminiscant of the Reangan momment.

You probably don't remember because you were only a kindergarter at the time.

And what was that moment?

The moderator was trying to cut Reagan off and Reagan told the moderator to quiet down that he was going to answer a question, the moderator persisted telling Reagan that he had the microphne, Regan became forceful put the moderator in his place telling the moderator that he actually paid for the microphone taking charge of the room as the moderator sank into obscurity.

Bush had that moment to many Americans last night.

Ask your older Republican friends or realitives about that one.

db9
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Old 10-10-2004, 08:12 AM   #118
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Another honest partisan

click link for wisdom
http://politics.slate.msn.com/id/2107963/

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Old 10-10-2004, 10:07 AM   #119
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Well, I know this entire board is full of Kerry bias, as do you, so I'll take most of the opionions on here with a pinch of salt.

That said, I thought they both debated fine. I can't really say who I believe won, because it was so close!!

I'm starting to think these debates are a little pointless though. Come on, both candidates know how to make themselves look right. They can throw a bunch of statistics out there that most of us don't really understand and make themselves look right. Most of the time I end up thinking "ok... they both seem to have good plans...". I think it's just about the personalities really. How they talk, their use of language, their facial expressions. I think that's really stupid. If someone slurs their words it has no affect on how good of a president they'll be... it's completely stupid. People are so shallow these days.
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Old 10-10-2004, 10:26 AM   #120
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What about a defective thinking process?


What about a stubbornness and arrogance that causes one to not weight new information objectively,
that does not support your agenda?
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