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Old 03-08-2006, 12:30 PM   #1
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Men can have abortions too

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rnational/home


British woman denied right to use frozen embryos

Associated Press

Strasbourg, France — The European Court of Human Rights ruled Tuesday that a British woman has no right to use frozen embryos to have a baby without permission from the man who provided the sperm.

The court upheld a British law that stipulates consent from both parents is needed at every stage of the in vitro fertilization process, as well as for the storage and implantation of the fertilized eggs.

Natalie Evans, 34, had filed the case, claiming the British law breached her rights under the European Convention on Human Rights. She said her right to privacy and family life and the embryo's right to life were being violated by the decision of her former fiancé, Howard Johnston, to withdraw his permission for use of his sperm. She also had argued his attempt to block her having the baby was discriminatory.

Ms. Evans was left infertile after being treated for a precancerous condition, but in 2001, prior to the removal of her ovaries, six of her eggs were fertilized by Mr. Johnston's sperm through in vitro fertilization.

The couple then split up, and Mr. Johnston withdrew his consent for her to use the embryos. Ms. Evans took him to British court, but judges there rejected her legal appeals to implant an embryo, saying consent from both partners was needed and ordering the destruction of the embryos.

The European court -- based in Strasbourg, France -- requested a stay of the destruction order in February, 2005, while it considered Evans' appeal.

The court said Tuesday it was up to national law to define when the right to life began, and that under British law an embryo does not have independent rights or interests.

The court said it had sympathy for Ms. Evans' plight, but ruled that Mr. Johnston's withdrawal of consent for the use of his sperm did not violate her right to family life as stipulated in Europe's human rights convention.

The court requested that the British government ensure the embryos are not destroyed, in case Ms. Evans appeals the case further.

Mr. Johnston said he found it hard to live with the attention the case has generated and felt relieved the court ruled in his favour.

“The key thing for me was just to be able to decide when and if I start a family. So, that's been the basis for it,” he told journalists in Cheltenham, England.
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:36 PM   #2
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Intersting
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Old 03-08-2006, 01:38 PM   #3
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The case raises a myriad of issues - the analysis would vary depending on jurisdiction.

I wonder to what extent we will permit the contracting of such reproductive functions so that traditional presumptions under the law can be waived or altered.
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Old 03-08-2006, 03:50 PM   #4
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How is this abortion?
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Old 03-08-2006, 03:55 PM   #5
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A hyperbolic headline.

The man is execising control over the embyos leading to their destruction.
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Old 03-08-2006, 04:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
A hyperbolic headline.

The man is execising control over the embyos leading to their destruction.
I understand that...

Quote:
prior to the removal of her ovaries, six of her eggs were fertilized by Mr. Johnston's sperm through in vitro fertilization.
But what about the other 5 fertilized eggs, if she would have been able to have a baby with one, would these have automatically been abortions as well? I think we're really confusing the issue by calling it abortion.
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:38 PM   #7
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Hi BVS, good to see you back.

This is pure speculation on my part, but I'm guessing perhaps AliEnvy made the analogy because here is a case of a man being allowed to not have a child he doesn't want on the grounds that control over his reproductive capacities ultimately belongs to him and him alone, even once an embryo already exists.
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:49 PM   #8
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fertilized eggs / embryo

destruction is not abortion


there are some 400,000 fertilized eggs frozen in the U. S. alone and most of them will be eventually destroyed and disposed of as medical waste.

if a man has a vasectomy it is not abortion
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
Hi BVS, good to see you back.

This is pure speculation on my part, but I'm guessing perhaps AliEnvy made the analogy because here is a case of a man being allowed to not have a child he doesn't want on the grounds that control over his reproductive capacities ultimately belongs to him and him alone, even once an embryo already exists.
Hello, and thanks.

Quote:
that control over his reproductive capacities ultimately belongs to him and him alone
I can see this analogy. Interesting.
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:57 PM   #10
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Thinking practically, even if you consider the destruction of frozen embryos to be murder, the sheer number of them makes it impossible for them ever to come to term. Ever.

Now considering how all these discarded embryos could be used for stem cell research, rather than fertilizing eggs in a laboratory for the expressed purpose of destroying them, I find it quite wasteful that we are just destroying these frozen embryos without using them for what has the potential for good.

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Old 03-08-2006, 07:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Hello, and thanks.

hope you enjoyed your time away

i have slacked off a bit myself
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


hope you enjoyed your time away

Some of it was enjoyable. But it's good to be back.
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
Thinking practically, even if you consider the destruction of frozen embryos to be murder.
there is no logic or sense in that statement

an embryo that is not implanted in a live womb with a constant nourishment source
has no chance of ever being a human being.

you might as well call people in cryonic suspension live people
because some day they could be brought to life
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
there is no logic or sense in that statement
Be that as it may, we still have to deal with the fact that many religions define "life" as starting at the moment of conception. As such, it is something that must be dealt with on an ethical level, even if not at a scientific level.

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Old 03-08-2006, 08:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


Be that as it may, we still have to deal with the fact that many religions define "life" as starting at the moment of conception. As such, it is something that must be dealt with on an ethical level, even if not at a scientific level.

Melon
I can not agree



"the fact that many religions define "life" as starting at the moment of conception."


Would you say the same for

"the fact that many religions define "homosexuality" as against nature, abnormal and always wrong."


"as something that must be dealt with on an ethical level"


some religious definitions/beliefs are just plain wrong


engaging in thoughtful discussion with people about irrational beliefs will lead to tolerance for female circumcism and other quack ideas/ beliefs.

stating that there is no basis in fact or science to support those beliefs is a better approach in my opinion
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