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Old 08-01-2006, 12:41 PM   #121
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Theological event?!? Ummm Jesus was whipped, had thorn cross put on his head and speared, how is that not accurat?
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:44 PM   #122
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So if you asked any art student if those scenes are homo erotic they would say yes, or asked a professor?
Well... I was an art student when I saw that movie... and I confess that I had to close my eyes and stop the DVD in the flagelation scenes. I didn't see the homoerotic references (I also didn't know much about mel gibson, the things about him I'm reading here are new for me) but I could felt that "someone" was enjoying those escenes, I mean, the suffering of a human (God) being was being showed as an spectacle of blood and pain. I was aware of how much Jesus suffered before his death, but that movie was like a freak show....
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:46 PM   #123
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Can you produce historical documentation from the Romans of Jesus being crucified? Can you give me some reportage that wasn't written well after the fact from second and third hand sources to reconstruct what happened - would it correlate? There were agendas driving the documentation and the historicity of the bible is very questionable; not least in this supposed person Jesus being brought back to life, a pretty rare event for the times (if it is to be belived ~ which it shouldn't without solid evidence).

The crucifiction and ressurection are very important parts of Christian theology in general and for Gibsons sect of Catholicism especially important (seeing how it is intent on maintaining the status quo circa the Holy Roman Empire)
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:49 PM   #124
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Maybe people could talk about those subjects and The Passion in another thread. I wanted to talk about his anti-Semitism, the miniseries, if he should be boycotted, etc. Sorry it's distracting, as I think sula already mentioned.

Healing what's left of his career? Why didn't have have a meeting like that years ago? I really hope he is serious about truly changing his beliefs and getting in touch with reality. I always wonder how and how much someone with those expressed beliefs can truly change. Too bad he seemingly wants to change only because he was caught and publicly outed as an anti-Semite.

(Reuters)Mel Gibson on Tuesday apologized for making anti-Semitic remarks after his recent arrest for drunken driving and asked to meet with members of the Jewish community to begin a "path for healing."

"There is no excuse, nor should there be any tolerance, for anyone who thinks or expresses any kind of anti-Semitic remark," Gibson said in a statement.

"I want to apologize specifically to everyone in the Jewish community for the vitriolic and harmful words that I said to a law enforcement officer the night I was arrested," he added.

Gibson, who directed 2004's blockbuster movie "The Passion of The Christ" about the last hours of the life of Jesus, was caught speeding in his car in the early morning last Friday, and he went on a rant in which he is widely reported to have said "The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world."..

But it has been the anti-Semitic remarks that have raised the biggest outcry from members of the Jewish community in and out of Hollywood because before "Passion," the Oscar-winning director of "Braveheart" and star of the "Lethal Weapon" movies denied he or the movie were anti-Semitic.

His statement on Tuesday sought a meeting with Jewish community leaders in which he could explain his actions.

"I'm not just asking for forgiveness. I would like to take it one step further, and meet with leaders in the Jewish community, with whom I can have a one-on-one discussion to discern the appropriate path for healing," Gibson said.

He said he has begun "an ongoing program of recovery," but admitted "I cannot do it alone."

"I am asking the Jewish community, whom I have personally offended, to help me on my journey through recovery," Gibson said.
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:49 PM   #125
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Can you produce historical documentation from the Romans of Jesus being crucified? Can you give me some reportage that wasn't written well after the fact from second and third hand sources to reconstruct what happened - would it correlate? There were agendas driving the documentation and the historicity of the bible is very questionable; not least in this supposed person Jesus being brought back to life, a pretty rare event for the times (if it is to be belived ~ which it shouldn't without solid evidence).

The crucifiction and ressurection are very important parts of Christian theology in general and for Gibsons sect of Catholicism especially important (seeing how it is intent on maintaining the status quo circa the Holy Roman Empire)
Only what I know from the Bible, I am at work, so I can't produce that evidence. Can you?
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:54 PM   #126
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No I can't, but the burden of proof rests on those making the claims - it's not my job to try and prove a negative. It is a moot point, what I was getting to was that the film is not meant to be an accurate depiction of what supposedly occured, it is built of medieval passion plays (which are a record in European anti-semitism) but done with a decent budget and makeup department. In doing so Gibson has made a set of stylistic decisions as he should with artistic licence to convert it to the big screen, it just so happens those decisions and choices raise the ire of a group he has profusely objected to, well them and the Jews
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:54 PM   #127
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Uh, so now this is a debate about The Crucifixion? I'm sorry I ever bumped this thread

Here's Mel Gibson's statement

(CNN) -- "There is no excuse, nor should there be any tolerance, for anyone who thinks or expresses any kind of anti-Semitic remark. I want to apologize specifically to everyone in the Jewish community for the vitriolic and harmful words that I said to a law enforcement officer the night I was arrested on a DUI charge.

I am a public person, and when I say something, either articulated and thought out, or blurted out in a moment of insanity, my words carry weight in the public arena. As a result, I must assume personal responsibility for my words and apologize directly to those who have been hurt and offended by those words.

The tenets of what I profess to believe necessitate that I exercise charity and tolerance as a way of life. Every human being is God's child, and if I wish to honor my God I have to honor his children. But please know from my heart that I am not an anti-Semite. I am not a bigot. Hatred of any kind goes against my faith.

I'm not just asking for forgiveness. I would like to take it one step further, and meet with leaders in the Jewish community, with whom I can have a one on one discussion to discern the appropriate path for healing.

I have begun an ongoing program of recovery and what I am now realizing is that I cannot do it alone. I am in the process of understanding where those vicious words came from during that drunken display, and I am asking the Jewish community, whom I have personally offended, to help me on my journey through recovery. Again, I am reaching out to the Jewish community for its help. I know there will be many in that community who will want nothing to do with me, and that would be understandable. But I pray that that door is not forever closed.

This is not about a film. Nor is it about artistic license. This is about real life and recognizing the consequences hurtful words can have. It's about existing in harmony in a world that seems to have gone mad.
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:57 PM   #128
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Well you and Irvine may find it Homo Erotic, but I don't. Would you find Saving Private Ryan Homo erotic with soldiers being shot up or in Glory when Denzel is being flogged for stealing a pair of shoes?


Justin, read this thread: http://forum.interference.com/showt...um&pagenumber=2

i think you'll find some interesting information in there. look for great appearances by joyfulgirl and Yolland.

so let's let this lie and return to the original intent of the thread.

though i do think it's impossible to separate Gibson's DUI and behavior from the films he's directed, and both are worthy of discussion.
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:58 PM   #129
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Good PR (better than Tom Cruises lack of damage control), but the mask slipped and try as he may it will always be there.
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:58 PM   #130
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I agree I started a new thread.
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Old 08-01-2006, 01:03 PM   #131
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I have a hard time accepting alcoholism or being drunk as his excuse for his comments.

Although I take alcoholism as a serious disease, I've never found it to make people just blurt out things they don't believe on some conscious or subconscious level.
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Old 08-01-2006, 01:05 PM   #132
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The Romans were onto that a long ago, In Vino Veritas
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Old 08-01-2006, 01:06 PM   #133
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How Does It Affect the Body?
Alcohol is a depressant, which means it slows the function of the central nervous system. Alcohol actually blocks some of the messages trying to get to the brain. This alters a person's perceptions, emotions, movement, vision, and hearing.

In very small amounts, alcohol can help a person feel more relaxed or less anxious. More alcohol causes greater changes in the brain, resulting in intoxication. People who have overused alcohol may stagger, lose their coordination, and slur their speech. They will probably be confused and disoriented. Depending on the person, intoxication can make someone very friendly and talkative or very aggressive and angry. Reaction times are slowed dramatically - which is why people are told not to drink and drive. People who are intoxicated may think they're moving properly when they're not. They may act totally out of character.
http://kidshealth.org/teen/drug_alco...l/alcohol.html
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Old 08-01-2006, 01:11 PM   #134
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I have a hard time accepting alcoholism or being drunk as his excuse for his comments.

Although I take alcoholism as a serious disease, I've never found it to make people just blurt out things they don't believe on some conscious or subconscious level.
yeah.... , Insulting jewishs is not a common sign of being drunk.
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Old 08-01-2006, 01:15 PM   #135
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ABC pulls Mel Gibson Holocaust miniseries
Tue Aug 01,11:54 AM ET

The ABC television network said on Tuesday that it has pulled a miniseries about the Holocaust it was developing with Mel Gibson's production company.

The move came after Gibson was arrested on suspicion of drunken driving early on Friday and was reported to have launched into a tirade against Jews, asking the arresting officer if he was a Jew and blaming the Jews for starting all wars.

The actor, who holds strong conservative Catholic religious and political views and whose father is a Holocaust denier, apologized on Saturday and has entered a rehabilitation program to treat alcoholism.

But the incident has raised questions about the future of projects Gibson and his Icon Productions company are working on.

A spokeswoman for ABC, which is owned by Walt Disney Co., said an ABC television miniseries based on a memoir about a Dutch Jew during World War II would not go ahead.

"Given that it has been nearly two years and we have yet to see the first draft of a script, we have decided to no longer pursue this project with Icon," said spokeswoman Hope Hartland.

ABC did not give any further reason for its decision to drop the project and Hartland made no comment when asked if the decision was linked to Gibson's behavior at the weekend.

Disney's movie studio arm still plans to release Gibson's self-financed Mayan-language movie "Apocalypto" on December 8, Hollywood's trade papers reported.

The Web site www.slate.com quoted Walt Disney Studios President Oren Aviv as saying he accepted Gibson's apology.
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