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Old 07-31-2006, 03:11 PM   #61
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Originally posted by Irvine511

and we haven't even gotten into the horror film aspects of the movie. just when you think it can't get any worse, it does! the music swells! blood spurts orgasmically!
Blood spurts orgasmically? What in the world are you talking about?!
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Old 07-31-2006, 03:13 PM   #62
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but this is the genesis of anti-Semitism, it's Christianity's greatest sin. notice the scowls, the golden robes, the obsession with money, the hissing, the slithering, the scheming -- these are all cliched anti-Semetic fantasies that seem straight out of a Nazi pamphlet.

and we haven't even gotten into the horror film aspects of the movie. just when you think it can't get any worse, it does! the music swells! blood spurts orgasmically!

i'm not going to go any further. i explained myself at length in the other thread, so i think i'm done with "passion" discussion for right now.

so i'll leave it up to Christopher Hitchens:

[q]So let us not be euphemistic about what is staring us in the face. Last Wednesday, the Lovingway United Pentecostal Church in Denver posted a sign on its roadside marquee. It read "Jews Killed the Lord Jesus." This pigsty of a church has, I think you will agree, an unimprovable name. But its elders, or whatever they call themselves, can't have had time to see the movie, which only opened that same Ash Wednesday. Nor, I think it safe to say, had they chosen the slogan only on the spur of the moment. No: They had been thinking this for quite a long time and were emboldened to "come out" and say so under the cover of a piece of devotional cinematic pornography. Some of us saw this coming. In America, I hope and believe, the sinister effect will be blunted by generations of civilized co-existence. But think for a moment what will happen when Gibson reaps the residual and overseas profits from screenings of the film in Egypt and Syria, or in Eastern Europe, where things are a bit more raw. Who can believe that he did not anticipate, and intend, this result?

Apparently seeking to curry favor, Gibson announced a few weeks ago that he had cut the scene where a Jewish mob yells for the blood of Jesus to descend on the heads of its children (a scene that occurs in only one of the four contradictory Gospels). Gibson lied. The scene is still there, spoken in Aramaic. Only the English subtitle has been removed. Propagandists in other countries will be able to subtitle it any way they like. This is all of a piece with the general moral squalor of his project. Gibson's producer lied when he said that a pope Gibson despises had endorsed the film. He would not show the movie to anyone who might object in advance. He will not debate any of his critics, and he relies on star-stricken pulp interviewers to feed him soft questions. Now, as the dollars begin to flow from this front-loaded fruit-machine of cynical publicity, he is sobbing about the risks and sacrifices he has made for the Lord. A coward, a bully, a bigmouth, and a queer-basher. Yes, we have been here before. The word is fascism, in case you are wondering, and we don't have to sit through that movie again.

http://www.slate.com/id/2096323/

[/q]



we can also talk about the homoerotic undertones, if you want.
What Homo Erotic Undertones?
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Old 07-31-2006, 03:58 PM   #63
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We know from the Bible that Satan was with Jesus during the 40 days temptation in the wilderness. Why would we doubt that Satan was there taunting Christ at the point at whcih Christ was being tortured? He was certainly there in spirit, stirring up the people's hearts and souls to behave so wickedly.

Beyond that, it was symbolism to show that Satan was the mastermind urging the people on to cry out for Christ's death.


and a total cinematic fabrication by Gibson.

just adds to the anti-Semitism.
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Old 07-31-2006, 03:59 PM   #64
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Blood spurts orgasmically? What in the world are you talking about?!


all that blood spurting -- when they pound the nails into his hands, when they stab him in the side at the end, when Mary cleans up the blood after the 100% unrealistic scourging (which no one would have survived).

reminded me of cumshots. and other reviewers, too.

total money shots. bam! blood! spurt! how exciting!
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:00 PM   #65
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Not to rain on anyone's parade, but if I'm not mistaken this topic (The Passion) was already debated in another thread (probably several in fact). If you feel the need to revisit that discussion, feel free to drag up the old thread(s).

Otherwise, perhaps it would be more constructive to limit this discussion to the original topic, which I believe had to do with Mel Gibson's involvement in an upcoming miniseries dealing with the Holocaust.

Thanks.
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:06 PM   #66
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What Homo Erotic Undertones?

Christopher Hitchens: (can't cite because I had to dig it up on Nexis)

[q]A FEW years ago, Mel Gibson got himself into an argument after uttering a series of crude remarks that were hostile to homosexuals.

Now he has made a film that principally appeals to the gay Christian sado-masochistic community: a niche market that hasn't been sufficiently exploited.

If you like seeing handsome young men stripped and tied up and flayed with whips, The Passion Of The Christ is the movie for you.

Some people used to go to Ben-Hur deliberately late, and just watch the chariot race while skipping the boring quasi-Biblical stuff. Alas, that isn't possible with this film.

Along with the protracted torture comes a simple-minded but nonetheless bigoted version of the more questionable bits of the Gospels. It's boring all right - much of the film is excruciatingly tedious - but it also manages to be extraordinarily nasty.

Gibson claims that the Holy Ghost spoke through him in the directing of this movie, and that everything in it is from the Bible. I very much doubt the first claim, and I can safely say that the second one is false.

The Bible does not have an encounter between Jesus and a sort of Satanic succubus figure in the Garden of Gethsemane. The Bible does not have a raven pecking out the eye of one of the crucified thieves. The Bible does not have Judas pursued to his suicide by a horde of supernatural and sinister devil-children.

Moreover, whatever the Bible may say, the Roman authorities in Jerusalem were not minor officials in a Jewish empire, compelled to obey the orders of a gang of bloodthirsty rabbis.

It was Rome that was boss. Indeed, Pontius Pilate was later recalled by the Emperor Tiberius for the extreme brutality with which he treated the Jewish inhabitants (and you had to be quite cruel to get Tiberius to raise his eyebrows).

YET Gibson is evidently obsessed with the Jewish question, and it shows in his film.

[/q]
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:29 PM   #67
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Thanks for the article that mentions what Tiberius did to Pontius Pilate. That's something that's not exactly household knowledge in the U.S. or any other predominately Christian country. He was recalled and sent to his native Gaul because he treated the Jews like . The guy was basically human garbage.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:04 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



Christopher Hitchens: (can't cite because I had to dig it up on Nexis)

[q]A FEW years ago, Mel Gibson got himself into an argument after uttering a series of crude remarks that were hostile to homosexuals.

Now he has made a film that principally appeals to the gay Christian sado-masochistic community: a niche market that hasn't been sufficiently exploited.

If you like seeing handsome young men stripped and tied up and flayed with whips, The Passion Of The Christ is the movie for you.

[/q]

I think the author is pushing it, there's many things that are completely wrong in the Passion at least historically or biblically speaking but to say that it has homoerotic undertones it's a bit to much quite insulting just for thinking people will actually be aroused seeing Christ stripped and tied up
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:14 PM   #69
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by Arianna Huffington

So is Mel Gibson's drunken anti-Semitic spew really headline news -- or is it just another celebrity DUI? Another high-profile addition to The Smoking Gun's mug shot gallery (Nick and Glen, meet your new buddy Mel)? Monologue fodder for Leno, Letterman, Conan, and Kimmel? Nothing but a tempest in a tequila bottle?

Maybe that would be the case if these were ordinary times. But, with extremists gaining power and garnering sympathy all across the world, there is nothing ordinary about these times.

And that is why this could prove to be a seminal moment in our cultural history. Particularly in the cultural history of Hollywood.

Taking a page from our president, I see the Gibson story as "a moment of opportunity," a chance for reasonable people to stand up and be counted. For the sane among us to identify, separate, and condemn the extremists, the fanatics, the fundamentalists, the bigots, the hate-mongers and say 'no more.'

In the same way that ordinary Muslims need to separate themselves from the blood-drenched ideology of Hezbollah, Hollywood needs to separate itself from the odious racism of Gibson. And I don't make that connection lightly. Remember, during his DUI tirade, Gibson claimed, "The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world." That kind of thinking makes him psychological soul mates with Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, who has said, "If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak, and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology, and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew."

Gibson's no-longer-deniable brand of bigotry has led to the extermination of millions -- and continues to fuel much of the strife and suffering in the world today. Which is why Hollywood cannot sit this one out and wait for the reviews to come in.

For years, social conservatives have questioned the morals and ethics of the entertainment community -- tossing around the shibboleth of "Hollywood values" as an oxymoronic grenade in the culture wars. Well, now is the time for Hollywood to show what those values really are by making Gibson pay the price for his bigotry and intolerance.

For starters, the town's power players need to step up and publicly condemn Gibson's vile comments (in effect, saying in public what they are already saying in private conversations I and many others have had). I mean, it shouldn't be so hard to publicly denounce someone -- even an Oscar-winner -- for being a raging anti-Semite.

But that's not happening. From this morning's Los Angeles Times:

Although many of the town's senior executives are Jewish and Hollywood has a long history of supporting Israel and Jewish causes, there was no widespread public condemnation of Gibson's comments over the weekend. Although some high-level executives privately expressed dismay at the statements attributed to Gibson after his arrest, none of those contacted would speak on the record.

Talk about lacking the courage of their convictions. Which makes Ari Emanuel's no-holds-barred post all the more praise-worthy. But is Ari the only high-profile figure willing to publicly draw a line in the Malibu sand? How disgusting and disappointing is that?

I know this is, at its heart, a very cautious town -- a place that always likes to keep one eye on the bottom line -- but this is no time to play it safe or to put dollars ahead of doing the unquestionably right thing.

Which is why Gibson's agent, Ed Limato, should immediately drop him as a client. And not because his boss at ICM, Jeff Berg, is Jewish, nor because so many of his clients, including Billy Crystal, are Jewish. This isn't a matter of Jews sticking together or non-Jews showing solidarity. It's about choosing sides in the real battle being fought all across the globe -- the fight between extremism and rationality, between hatred and common decency.

And Bob Iger at Disney needs to pull the plug on two Gibson projects that are in the works. The company is slated to distribute Gibson's latest directorial project, Apocalypto, opening on December 8. They should refuse to do so. And ABC, which is owned by Disney, should, without delay, scrap its head-scratching plan to develop a miniseries about the Holocaust with Gibson's company (yep, you read that right).

Yet when asked about the status of the still-in-development miniseries, an ABC spokeswoman said, "It is not at the point where you would make those determinations. There is no script."

Question for ABC: Do you really need to see a script to know that the idea of having a Holocaust-set miniseries produced by a guy who thinks "the Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world" is a god-awful one?

Reading the horror stories of the survivors of the Qana bombing, any rational person's instinct is to criticize the tactics Israel is using to take on Hezbollah. Then a thought arises: will this criticism come across as part and parcel of the anti-Semitic worldview of the Gibson crowd?

Which is yet another reason Gibson needs to be ostracized: his lunatic ravings make it all-the-harder for legitimate criticisms of Israel's methods to be expressed and to be heard with uncluttered ears.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:46 PM   #70
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Does Hollywood have the guts to ostracize Gibson? I'm not sure. They want the $$ that will come in from the movies, the miniseries, the whole thing. Can they say "no" to the Almighty Buck? For this guy to be producing a series on the Holocaust is about like having the Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan producing a movie about the Civil Rights movement. Gibson is a "Traditionalist" Catholic who rejects the authority of Vatican II. This includes a document that admitted that the Church had had a role in anti-Semitism in Europe, and disavowed anti-Semitism. Some people think these people merely want a Latin mass. No. They reject Vatican II, they reject the authority of the present pope, and claim he's a closet Protestant. Do you want to see a movie produced by a guy with views like this?
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:50 PM   #71
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http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/...2257555&page=1

July 31, 2006 — The 81-year-old Holocaust survivor upon whose memoir Mel Gibson has based a TV miniseries says she had no idea Gibson was involved in the project, and that she found his alleged anti-Semitic comments hurtful but that they shouldn't be blown out of proportion.

"In this country, there is always the tendency of the press to exaggerate," says Flory Van Beek, a Dutch Jew who hid from the Nazis with the help of her Catholic boyfriend.

"Yes, I read about his supposed comments, and yes, it appears that he said very stupid and hurtful things," says Van Beek. "But as a Jew, I am much more concerned with what is going on in Israel, which is fighting for its very survival, and I wish that was more the focus of news coverage."

It's very misleading to call this a Mel Gibson project," Van Beek says. "His name is not on any of the documents that I signed, and I've had no contact with him."


Van Beek, who lives with her 94-year-old husband in Newport Beach, Calif., says she wasn't immediately aware that Gibson was involved with Con Artists when she sold the option to her book, but that it wouldn't have affected the deal to which she agreed.

"I wanted to keep alive the memory of the Holocaust and those who were lost," she says. "I just want the movie to accurately tell the story in my book." ..

Even if Gibson were inebriated when he made the alleged remarks, "it would be inappropriate for him to direct a film about the Holocaust," said Rabbi Marvin Heir of the Simon Weisenthal Center in Los Angles.

But Van Beek said that Gibson has yet to say what direct role, if any, he'll play in the film. "I wish those who had no knowledge of what's going on would stop from jumping to conclusions," she says. "This film is still in its planning stages, and as of now, I don't believe he'll have any direct involvement."

ABC TV and companies involved in the miniseries did not return calls regarding the project, and a production schedule for the film has yet to be made public.
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Old 07-31-2006, 05:55 PM   #72
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Does Hollywood have the guts to ostracize Gibson?






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Old 07-31-2006, 06:00 PM   #73
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I hate Huffington, What would she wan't apocolypto pulled??? That %@$%@$@$ needs to shutup
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Old 07-31-2006, 06:11 PM   #74
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That %@$%@$@$ needs to shutup
Why? She has a right to her opinion. Why do you hate her?
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Old 07-31-2006, 06:12 PM   #75
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Different political views mainly. She is Arrogant, one sided and is a groupie who like to run with the hate crowd when it's hot.
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