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Old 08-02-2006, 05:00 PM   #181
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How does the kicking enhance personal responsibility?

Whether you choose to kick or not is a matter of personal reflection.


hypocrisy is about the abdication of personal responsibility -- do as i say, not as i do.

the kicking seems warranted.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:08 PM   #182
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Isn't apologizing part of taking personal responsibility?
Yes. The thing is, unless he leaves the Traditionalist wing of the Catholic Church, I'm suspicious of the sincerity of the apology. They won't accept that Vatican II document denouncing anti-Semitism.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:09 PM   #183
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Apologizing doesn't mean anything to me unless someone changes the inappropriate behavior (and bigoted attitude, and bigoted thoughts), understands the roots of the behavior, and makes true amends. In my personal life if people do hurtful things to me and I let them know it hurts and I think it's wrong, and they continue in the same pattern of behavior..to me the apology is rendered utterly meaningless. Words are empty, actions speak much louder than words. Future actions, not just avoiding the person or situation. So do honest heartfelt amends and self-awareness. The best people can get past their egos and truly admit when they're wrong, not just pay lip service.

I am not "kicking" Mel Gibson, and HE is not the victim here. I just happen to hate bigotry and anti-Semitism. Trust me, I am much harder on myself than I am on others.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:24 PM   #184
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Isn't apologizing part of taking personal responsibility?

That depends. If it's a sincere apology, yes. That is a huge step toward personal responsibilty.

But if it's an apology given to save face and salvage a career that relies heavily on how much the public likes or dislikes you, it's pretty meaningless.

I guess Mel Gilbson is the only one who knows if it was sincere or not.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:28 PM   #185
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Yes. The thing is, unless he leaves the Traditionalist wing of the Catholic Church, I'm suspicious of the sincerity of the apology. They won't accept that Vatican II document denouncing anti-Semitism.
Are you suggesting that identification with the traditionalist wing of the Catholic Church = anti-semetic? I understand they don't accept Vatican II, but that made numerous changes in the Catholic Church.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:29 PM   #186
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Yes. The thing is, unless he leaves the Traditionalist wing of the Catholic Church, I'm suspicious of the sincerity of the apology. They won't accept that Vatican II document denouncing anti-Semitism.
Thats like saying this sect is the black sheep of the religion. We could say that about any religion. It's not the church it's the people and not all in Gibsons church have the same views as him.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:29 PM   #187
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That depends. If it's a sincere apology, yes. That is a huge step toward personal responsibilty.

But if it's an apology given to save face and salvage a career that relies heavily on how much the public likes or dislikes you, it's pretty meaningless.

I guess Mel Gilbson is the only one who knows if it was sincere or not.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:31 PM   #188
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Originally posted by Irvine511
hypocrisy is about the abdication of personal responsibility -- do as i say, not as i do.

the kicking seems warranted.
I guess my general question is: should you do it anyways?
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:35 PM   #189
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You know all of you who say he desereves a kicking are hypocrites in your religous views. You "act" like your christian but your not. Some one says something like what gibson did and let's all jump on the wagon of "Bash and kick Mel to the Curb" Let's see you pick up the first stone and hit him because if you do then my god you would make Jesus very happy to not have any sins.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:39 PM   #190
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


I guess my general question is: should you do it anyways?
Yes. He hasn't proven he's given up the views. Unless he quits that Traditionalist wing of the Catholic Church, and he hasn't said he'll do that, I'll keep on denouncing the guy.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:44 PM   #191
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Who exactly are you referring to Justin? I don't see anyone here saying he deserves a kicking.

What about what you have said here about Arianna Huffington-in that thread yesterday-was that hypocritical and acting like a good Christian but you're not? I truly do not mean to pick on you, I guess I'm confused.

A good Christian in my opinion is forgiving and loving- yet still stands up for what they believe is right, and against what they believe is wrong. You can do that without "kicking" people, I don't understand why some people here can't see that

And I really don't think anyone here has the right to tell anyone else that they're acting like Christians but they're really not. Who is anyone to determine that, especially from discussions on a message board? I never said I have no sins, neither has anyone else.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:46 PM   #192
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I am not a good christian and I admit that. If I never said it before then I am saying it now.

--Why????????????

I do not believe in the human race. It is flawed.

I used to support the Iraq war, not anymore but I support the men and woman in the armed services.

I support Israel in it's battle against Hezbulla

I am for executions of Murderers that deserve it.

I am in the middle on Abortion

I used to be a Homophobe, but I have seen the light and I am not happy with things I have said in the past.

I am tired of this whole Race issue. Fuck it. There is only one race and that is humanity.

Thats some of it................................
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:47 PM   #193
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Originally posted by verte76


Yes. He hasn't proven he's given up the views. Unless he quits that Traditionalist wing of the Catholic Church, and he hasn't said he'll do that, I'll keep on denouncing the guy.
Denounce him for his religious affiliation?
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:48 PM   #194
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I am not a good christian and I admit that. If I never said it before then I am saying it now.
But yet you are setting yourself up as a judge of who is and who isn't in FYM, I just really think that's uncalled for and unfair.
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Old 08-02-2006, 05:51 PM   #195
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But yet you are setting yourself up as a judge of who is and who isn't in FYM, I just really think that's uncalled for and unfair.
If you think that then I am sorry. But do we really know each other? I hope we can be friends.
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