Mel Gibson To Produce Holocaust Miniseries - Page 12 - U2 Feedback

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Old 08-02-2006, 08:47 AM   #166
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It seems slightly counter-productive to me to compel the man to speak on Yom Kippur. After all, shouldn't this be something he feels he should do, if he is truly repentant? Otherwise what is it but more PR?
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Old 08-02-2006, 10:40 AM   #167
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Old 08-02-2006, 11:36 AM   #168
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I don't see what good having Gibson as a Yom Kippur speaker at a synagogue would do. A zebra doesn't change its stripes if you move its cage at the zoo.
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Old 08-02-2006, 12:39 PM   #169
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Originally posted by maycocksean
Can he change?
There is hope for anybody, but he has to make the decision to change. To date, when repeatedly confronted with this issue, he has elected not to change.

I find it interesting how Gibson is now the #1 news story. Makes me wonder why so many point out the sins of another so loudly. I think we've discussed this principle before.
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:09 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
It seems slightly counter-productive to me to compel the man to speak on Yom Kippur. After all, shouldn't this be something he feels he should do, if he is truly repentant? Otherwise what is it but more PR?
What is the most effective way to help someone like Mel to change? Shunt him aside, which will probably only reinforce whatever views he may have? Or reach out to him, and potentially change his mind and heart?
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:15 PM   #171
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Mel hasn't quite kicked the Israeli-Lebanon conflict out of the news. But his story sort of connects with the conflict because Israel is one of the major characters in the war. You've got a point, nathan, maybe the Yom Kippur thing will change his views. But as a practicing Catholic, I don't feel like there's any way he'll give up his Traditionalist views, which include anti-Semitism. To try to get a Traditionalist Catholic to repudiate anti-Semitism is about like getting the Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan to repudiate racism.
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:16 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


There is hope for anybody, but he has to make the decision to change. To date, when repeatedly confronted with this issue, he has elected not to change.
Unless someone thinks he is wrong and admit it, he will not change.

I really think that until his drunkenness allowed his true feelings out, Mel really did not think he was anti-semitic; either that or he was in a state of denial. Now that he admits his words and attitudes are wrong, he is open to change.
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:17 PM   #173
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i really could care less about Mel's personal problems, or i couldn't care any more about Mel than i do about anyone else who needs help for alcoholism or is small-minded enough to find strength in anti-Semitism (or homophobia, or sexism) that Gibson certainly does.

but Gibson is a powerful cultural player. he is a well-paid, well-respected actor and director who has been rewarded by Hollywood with Oscars in the past. this has more cultural meaning than mere schadenfreude.

for me, the story is the vindication of the critics of "The Passion" -- one of the biggest domestic grossing films *ever* and the centerpiece of a legitimate cultural moment that happened not too long ago -- who rightly charged the film with intentional anti-Semitism.

one example:

[q]We soon see the human agents of his distress in a cutaway shot of Judas meeting with the Sanhedrin, the rabbis and Pharisees who oversee the Jerusalem temple and convey in their every act and utterance the sort of unfeeling villainy you would see in a Punch and Judy landlord. They also, not incidentally, lock firmly into the caricature of Jewish venality and cunning for which Passion plays have been infamous ever since the Middle Ages. The most subtle anti-Semitic trope in the portrayal of the Sanhedrin is also the most telling: the high priest, Caiaphas, is almost never pictured alone. The entire Sanhedrin, in fact, moves continually in a pack - you imagine that they have to navigate through doors sideways - and this casual thronging instinct, together with their boxy period headwear and white prayer shawls, gives the impression that they are ancient Hebrew forerunners of the imperial Storm Troopers in Star Wars. As in George Lucas's cinematic spiritual fables, the effect here is to depict a grouped set of evil impulses rather than identifiable individuals.

http://www.therevealer.org/archives/feature_000240.php

[/q]
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:33 PM   #174
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I didn't see "The Passion" so I can't comment on the alleged anti-Semitism of the movie, but he's giving his critics cannon fodder. He's powerless to stop their criticism now.
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:56 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally posted by nathan1977
What is the most effective way to help someone like Mel to change? Shunt him aside, which will probably only reinforce whatever views he may have? Or reach out to him, and potentially change his mind and heart?
As with anyone, wise counsel is needed. Something that is in short supply.

For all the talk about how we should love one another, we certainly get a joy out of kicking a guy when he's down (even if it is deserved).
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:59 PM   #176
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
For all the talk about how we should love one another, we certainly get a joy out of kicking a guy when he's down (even if it is deserved).


don't blatant examples of hypocrisy (especially when combined with professions of piety ... less so in Gibson's case, more so in the case of, say, Key Lay) sometimes deserve a good kicking? isn't this part of personal responsibility?
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Old 08-02-2006, 02:13 PM   #177
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Makes me wonder why so many point out the sins of another so loudly. I think we've discussed this principle before.
Yes we have, we even have some folks calling for constitution ammendment bans to point out these "sins". I guess it makes the stone throwers feel better about themselves...

As for Gibson himself, I haven't seen too much, "beating him" or "kicking him when we're down". I think for the most part we've talked about taking responsibilty of his actions and if this as all changes the light on some of his projects in the past.
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Old 08-02-2006, 03:50 PM   #178
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We're talking about personal responsibility. Gibson made the statements, now he has to live with the fact that he made them. All the apologizing in the world won't help that.
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Old 08-02-2006, 04:45 PM   #179
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Isn't apologizing part of taking personal responsibility?
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Old 08-02-2006, 04:47 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
don't blatant examples of hypocrisy (especially when combined with professions of piety ... less so in Gibson's case, more so in the case of, say, Key Lay) sometimes deserve a good kicking? isn't this part of personal responsibility?
How does the kicking enhance personal responsibility?

Whether you choose to kick or not is a matter of personal reflection.
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