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Old 04-28-2005, 08:58 AM   #16
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'80's, what you're saying reminds me of a quote from St. Augustine about the heart of the Christian being heavy because he or she is always a pilgrim looking for a home. That's true of me also.
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Old 04-28-2005, 08:59 AM   #17
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Fecuste nos ad te, domine,
et cor inquietam est
donec requiet in te.


(You made us for yourselves, O Lord,
and the heart is restless
until it rests in Thee.)

--St. Augustine
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Old 04-28-2005, 09:05 AM   #18
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The more I'm around, the more I am certain that there is no meaning.

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Old 04-28-2005, 09:05 AM   #19
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Thank you for posting that Pax!
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Old 04-28-2005, 09:12 AM   #20
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Yeah, that's great Pax. That sums it up best.
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Old 04-28-2005, 09:37 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
'80's, what you're saying reminds me of a quote from St. Augustine about the heart of the Christian being heavy because he or she is always a pilgrim looking for a home. That's true of me also.
It's a strange feeling, it's with me almost contantly, but intensifies in certain situations.
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Old 04-28-2005, 10:01 AM   #22
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The short answer is "not necessarily".

The long answer is that having God in your life allows you to find what will make your life more meaningful more quickly than without him.

BTW, I am Jewish -- converted -- and prefer the Jewish perspective of this life to many other perspectives. The Jewish perspective is that our purpose is to make this world as perfect as possible and to appreciate and enjoy the good even when there are so many imperfections. Sin is a deed and not a death sentence. We are not just a soul imprisoned in our sinful flesh.
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Old 04-28-2005, 04:01 PM   #23
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Sometimes I feel the presence of God when I do the perfect downward dog.
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Old 04-28-2005, 06:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest


I have a question:

If there is no God, where do "right" and "wrong" come from?
Logical axioms derived from basic principles.
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Old 04-28-2005, 10:43 PM   #25
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Re: Meaning in life

Quote:
Originally posted by indra


I had noted that I'm agnostic and don't believe in a god or an afterlife, which seemed to shock this person.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of bizarre folk in the world who think like that. Can't understand them myself, must have got brainwashed by the church or parents or schools when they were kids or something. Nasty...

I am a staunch agnostic, although I sometimes label myself an Athiest out of cheer frustration of the positively boring and pointless way our poor old world revolves around THE IDEA (Yes, merely an idea) of God. Problem is I don't like Athiesm cause I yearn for a day when Athiesm does not need to exist, and it's almost a religon in itself.

So how do I give my life meaning?

Well here's my philosophy. It's simplistic, but it works...

- I am alive.

- I know what gives me pleasure

- I know what gives me pain

- Take this saying (which is not uniquely Christian and is mere common sense, although I applaud Christianity for taking note of it):
"do unto others as you would have done to you"

- Accept that my Life IS ultimately futile and is naturally pointless.

- Accept that I'm never ever gonna find out reasons for living and why life must be.


...and from drawing these conclusions, I have finally found the meaning to life, and that is that there is none.......BUT........

I do have pleasures and I do have pains

I dont wanna feel pain

But I really wanna feel pleasure

I am born a free man, so I should have every right to pursue that pleasure, as long as it doesn't inflict pain on anyone else, because pain must be avoided at any cost.

Once I enter a state of pleasure (whether it is having a beer down the pub or listening to U2 or playin football), I am where I want and need to be, and hence there is nowhere else I want or need to be.

I have achieved a state of pleasure, and the process of achieveing that pleasure gives a sort of meaning to my life, and that is all I ask for.

No one needs or wants anything other than pleasure, but please, I beg of everyone in the human race, please don't pursue pleasure if someone is experiencing pain as a result, because that pleasure is not pure pleasure.

So there ya go, simplistic I know, but thats all I need, and if the world wasn't corrupted by certain elements of capitalism, than maybe we could all agree to a common philosophy.
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Old 04-28-2005, 11:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Logical axioms derived from basic principles.
I had to look :Axiom" up.

Axiom: (1)self-evident or universally recognized truth; a maxim: “It is an economic axiom as old as the hills that goods and services can be paid for only with goods and services” (Albert Jay Nock).
(2)An established rule, principle, or law.
(3)A self-evident principle or one that is accepted as true without proof as the basis for argument; a postulate.

Universally recognized? It still had tohave a beginning, or it wouldn't be around to be recognized. Did man create the axioms of right and wrong? If so, upon what did he base it?

Where did the basic principles come from? How do we know, really that it's wrong to murder someone who stole from you?
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Old 04-29-2005, 01:33 AM   #27
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Quote:
Where did the basic principles come from? How do we know, really that it's wrong to murder someone who stole from you?

If a society is to progress and indeed survive, it is necessary to have concepts of 'right' and 'wrong' in order to create the rules of law, it does not necessarily denote divinity. Indeed, the problem is that, for some aspects of law, we still can't agree on what is 'right' or 'wrong'. In some cases, it truly does appear to be subjective.

The main 'rules' that are needed for individuals to coexist are the ones that practically all societies agree on; ie - murder is counterproductive for the preservation of society, theft violates the respect of one's property, while rape, in itself a law that has changed over the years) is a violation of an innocent party altogther. These 'laws' have themselves progressed and developed over the ages, as we have continuously redefined what is 'right' or 'wrong', although some have changed less than others, of course.

Either way, a principle can be universally recognized without necessarily having God introduce them to a society, but rather, have the concept develop as society does. Remember, for a long time humans did nothing but run around in loin cloths and beat each other to death over some mammoth meat, before they realised that maybe this wasnt the best way to go about it.

Ant.
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Old 04-29-2005, 01:34 AM   #28
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Old 04-29-2005, 01:50 AM   #29
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oh no...universally accepted???? are there even universals as opposed to the many particulars?
plato would say that in order for us to call something good, there has to be some form in what is referred now as platonic heaven, some form of what good is. Knowledge of true Goodness allows us to recognize things in this realm that are good
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Old 04-29-2005, 01:50 AM   #30
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Bono, on some bootleg, introducing the song 'Pride': "We're here... to make LOVE!!!"

To me, that sums it up. That's the meaning of life--to make love. On a biological level, romantic level, spiritual level, friendship level, sexual level, everything level.
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